Unit doff/don question

[TMHeimer]

A question for instructors but I put it here for all to benefit. One I should probably know the answer to.

Every time I've done the unit doff/don skill in OW I have worn a weight belt as well as having integrated weights (common here, of course). In the pool, only the belt. In the pool I assume it always worked because of the tank's weight (unless near empty). The skill was done on knees (but same question here if done neutrally).

Question is-- Suppose you are wearing either a 5 or 7 mil wetsuit and BC with a lot of intergrated weight, but no belt. How do you get the skill done without floating up? Other than just don't let go....?

 

[boulderjohn]

How do you get the skill done without floating up? Other than just don't let go....?

Well, you don't let go. If you move the BCD and its weight intelligently during the exercise, it should not be a problem, whether you are kneeling or in mid water.

 

[fisheater]

An EXCELLENT question!

When I was a newbie, I was diving in a 7mm Farmer John and conventional BC with integrated weights. I needed a ton of lead, all of which was in my weight pockets. Just like the industry "said."

One day, I got entangled in some bull kelp off the Sonoma (Calif.) coast and my buddy was nowhere to be seen. Unlike giant kelp, you can't simply "snap" the stipes of bull kelp. They're like ropes.

So, the only way to extricate myself was to "doff" my BC and tank, while in midwater, untangle it and then "don" it back on.

As soon as I had gotten the BC/tank unit off, I realized that I was in a world of potential disaster. The only thing keeping my only source of gas from plunging to the bottom while I rocketed to the surface was my grip on the BC shoulder strap. Should I lose that grip, I would be FUBAR. I was very mindful and very careful, even though the surge had other ideas, and managed to free my gear of the kelp and get it back on my where it belonged, so I could finish off my dive safely.

However, that was the last time I ever dove with fully integrated weights. Immediately after, I split my weights between the BC pockets and a weight belt. Later, I went to a backplate and weight system, splitting weights between a belt and the backplate itself.

 

[MrVegas]

Even though I've always been a solid swimmer and thought I was good in the water, the first time I did this in OW class with integrated weights I was one of those desperately clinging to the BC upside down with one hand before getting myself straightened out. No problems on subsequent attempts swinging the BC around to the front and staying stable. I haven't ever had to take the BC off during a normal dive, though, so if your rig is heavy and you are light, I imagine it could be very difficult if you have a challenging situation (like the kelp issue described above).

 

[TMHeimer]

Well, you don't let go. If you move the BCD and its weight intelligently during the exercise, it should not be a problem, whether you are kneeling or in mid water.

I was kind of thinking that-- move the BC intelligently, maybe keep it a little over you so it weighs you down?
I too wear a 7 mil farmer john wetsuit and couldn't fit all the weight I need into the BC. But apparently fisheater could and he had a close call.
Actually, I thought about this after reading a "No Dumb Questions" question in Dive Training. The person asked why there hasn't been updated info. by agencies to cover the fact that many dive with only integrated weights these days. The answer given was just that you should be able to do the skill with whatever weight system you use and your instructor should be able to teach you that.
Didn't really answer the question IMO.
I think it's probably one thing to be able to do it in controlled situations, and if you're not wearing that thick a wetsuit or require the 42 pounds I need with my farmer john. May be something agencies should look into? Or perhaps advise against a ton of weight all in the BC?

 

[Darnold9999]

Learned this in my solo training. Don’t have all your weight on the BC. Instructor tangled my tank in line and I had to get out. In a dry suit with all weight attached to the backplate and harness. I was like a balloon on a string holding on to the the steel tank and plate. Managed to do the drill but getting back into the BC was not easy. Dive with a weight belt if I am in a dry suit now with just some weight on the backplate.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was kind of thinking that-- move the BC intelligently, maybe keep it a little over you so it weighs you down?

I think that is should be clear that if you end up head down holding your weighted BCD in your hand, you movement could have been a bit more intelligent. You don't have to be totally under it. Mostly just keep it close at hand.

The person asked why there hasn't been updated info. by agencies to cover the fact that many dive with only integrated weights these days. The answer given was just that you should be able to do the skill with whatever weight system you use and your instructor should be able to teach you that.
Didn't really answer the question IMO.

Why not? What would be different in course standards?

I haven't taught OW classes in a few years, but in my last years of doing so, I had the students use integrated weights one day and a weight belt the other day.

 

[MichaelMc]

I see it as a practical lesson that you should set up your gear so things are more balanced, by having some weight in a weight belt or harness, instead of relying on a delicate balancing act that may be difficult with additional task loading beyond the mere r/r in real need. I see part of the skill performance as realizing that you should likely put some weight in the weight belt while still on land. Being able to do it with all weight in the BC in the pool while not entangled does not mean you can do that with surge and entangled in kelp or line. My experiences with it have been with a 10mm Farmer John in light surge at 15' and a 8mm full suit in the pool, always with some on a weight belt. The 10mm would be way too interesting otherwise, and not something I would want to try at depth for real.

Using a belt may mean putting the weight in the BC higher up so your overall weight distribution is still balanced head to toe, so horizontal finning is easier.

 

[tbone1004]

A question for instructors but I put it here for all to benefit. One I should probably know the answer to.

Every time I've done the unit doff/don skill in OW I have worn a weight belt as well as having integrated weights (common here, of course). In the pool, only the belt. In the pool I assume it always worked because of the tank's weight (unless near empty). The skill was done on knees (but same question here if done neutrally).

Question is-- Suppose you are wearing either a 5 or 7 mil wetsuit and BC with a lot of intergrated weight, but no belt. How do you get the skill done without floating up? Other than just don't let go....?

don't let go. last week I shucked my double hose over my head because my can light that was attached to my crotch strap was twisted funny. Careful body positioning and it's not an issue

 

[TMHeimer]

Well yeah, some are suggesting not to have all your weight in the BC. Personally I never would myself. But that doesn't answer the person's question in Dive Training mag. He does (or may) have it all in the BC.
Perhaps an agency standard should then be you HAVE to have a belt too if you have over a certain amount of weight?
I guess it also gets back to what would happen if you got yourself in a weird situation-- like the kelp example given, or perhaps sudden current, whatever? Is it dangerous to have a ton of weight only in the BC in real life situations (as opposed to being able to do the skill in a pool in a course)? Should it be something agencies address in training?