BP/W for a totally newbie diver?

[D_Fresh]

Jacket BC is a motorcycle with the engine, wheels and suspension choice locked in place (sewn together), as well as the size and style of panniers. And many of them, for 'ease', put the handlebars (weight pockets) too far out front (down low), that it is harder to get comfortable (trimmed out for easy movement) on the road (in the water).

BP/W is a cycle frame (the BP/W concept) that takes modular engines, wheels, and suspension from, say, 20 (mostly) mutually compatible manufacturers and has built-in rails (2" webbing and the plate itself) for attaching your choice of panniers or other accessories not just in one spot but throughout the bike. Plus, most of the manufacturers sell a full up built one so you need not build or customize from parts if you do not want to. And the handlebars (weight distribution) are typically set up for you already in a much smoother (trimmed out) way, so it is easier as you start out.

But, you know, you could go either way.

Very clever analogy, I like it.

BP/W really is like a custom "insert vehicle here".... Even if you go with a pre-assembled backplate setup, you can still change each and every component as needed or desired, but you cannot do that with a jacket BC.

 

[NothingClever]

XDeep

Deep 6 Gear

Dive Gear Express

Dive Rite

Your wife is likely to gravitate towards what looks comfortable and she may be put off by the appearance of the BP. That’s not unusual but looks are deceiving and the BP is, in fact, comfortable and the sensation in the water is awesome.

I, along with two dive buddies, one from France and the other AUS, believe it IS easier to control buoyancy and achieve trim in a BP/W. Their opinion was formed after trying a BP/W one day after 30 years of poodle-jacket BCs. They both bought BP/Ws that same week and were regretful they had waited so long to make the switch.

I travel a lot with a stainless steel BP. It’s not mandatory to travel with an aluminum BP. I like being able to travel, pull out my kit and jump in the water without faffing about with weights (I don’t need/use ditchable weights).

Best of luck. Enjoy the hunt!

 

[MichaelMc]

Very clever analogy, I like it.

Thanks.

 

[Barnaby'sDad]

There’s no reason not to start out with a BP/W. If you’re put off by the perceived lack of comfort vs. a regular BC, but you want the modularity of a BP/W...you could go with something like the HOG Total Buoyancy Control System. That’s what I started out with.

BP/W’s with a deluxe harness and soft plate are essentially a BP/W gateway drug. You get the padding/comfort of a BC with the functionality (back inflate) of a BP/W.

As you go along on a setup like that...you’ll notice the shortcomings and probably start to make changes at some point. Ex. I removed to soft plate and went to a SS BP, then ditched the shoulder pads, and eventually the deluxe harness. At this point...the only part of my original HOG TBCS that is still in use is the wing.

I wish that I just started out with a standard BP/W. I would have saved myself some time and money, but then again...half the fun of a BP/W is tinkering with it and setting it up to suit your diving, so it was a good learning process.

 

[David Novo]

I know dive schools that teach OW in BPW. There is no reason not to.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Would I we be better off just buying a commercial BCD to start and wait until we get the experience to decide what we want before going the BP/W route, or is it worthwhile to go straight to the customizable option? I'm a pretty mechanically skilled guy (used to be a motorcycle mechanic), so I think I can deal with the assembly, disassembly and adjustments, etc.

Absolutely not! Perhaps rent a BCD if needed until you are ready to buy your first BP/W. Purchasing a commercial BCD is a complete waste of money IMO. I purchased by first backplate and wing shortly after my first two vacation dives after certification. Beginning with logged dive #7 I was in a BP/W and have not dived a commercial BCD in open water since. The only time I have been in a commercial BCD was when I was working as a Divemaster and only during the pool sessions. After 14+ years I still have and regularly dive that same backplate. I've replaced the wing but I still dive the same backplate and harness today that I bought and setup in 2006.

 

[Miyaru]

I know dive schools that teach OW in BPW. There is no reason not to.

Like mine. I only have several sets of BP/W and every single student learns how to dive with these. The majority experienced the first time in a BCD as annoying: bulky, more weights needed, less freedom.
Only one student favored a BCD after diving both options.

 

[Kenderson]

I only got my cert in July. I had done a couple of discovery dives in years past put only recently went and got my cert. I really didn't like the jacket style that I got on those dives and during my classes. They were always too big and I really didn't care for them. I rented a back inflate a few weeks ago and liked it, and it was after that I just decided to get the Dive Gear Express BP/W. I did my first dives with it this past weekend and really liked it. It needs some tweaking, but I felt much better in the water. I know part of it is experience, but I was using my hands much less, almost not at all, and I felt I was much better able to sit at depth without constantly going up and down.
I'm so glad I found this board otherwise I might have just gone with a jacket style BCD and perhaps not enjoyed diving as much.

 

[KenGordon]

If these BPW systems are so flexible and so forth how come I own four wings, four backplates and really need another wing? And how come all the people I have been diving with then last few weeks are just as sorted in the water in their Buddy Commandos as I am? And how c9me a wing costs as much as those Buddy Commando BCDs? And then I have to spend as much again on a backplate and harness?

There are advantages to a BPW, but there are disadvantages too and some of the advantages only apply vs either entry level BCDs lacking good rings or super up market ones overwhelmed with dubious features.

The advantages, IMHO, are that you can hang things off the d-rings and adjust the position of those d-rings, with a SS backplate you reduce the weight belt, your front is generally clear, you are not squashed when the bladder is fully inflated and lastly the buoyancy is under the heavy cylinder. Some of these benefits, such as the buoyancy position or having steel d-ring you can hang a stage from, only really apply for more complicated setups such as using twinsets and taking deco cylinders. Some decent BCDs also have good d-rings, although not normally as adjustable.

Disadvantages include a lack of pockets, extra skill required to get in and out of them, lack of easy adjustment and weight for travel. Some of these can be added as option so but doing so removes some of the advantages. Price too. The last wing I bought was about £250 which is only about £30 more than those Buddy BCDs people were using, most of which were at least 10 years old and only half way through their life.

There are choices in BPW, donut wing vs horseshoe? Steel vs Aluminium, single piece webbing harness vs harness with breaks or even fully adjustable, how many d-rings, where should they go, padded backplate, DSMB storage, pockets, weight systems? It is perfectly possible to build a BPW systems which is just as over complicated as the worst factory BCD, just easier to throw away bits from.

People here claim that a BPW will make you a better diver by being easier to trim out. I don’t think this is true. While a steel BPW puts some weight higher, which may be an advantage, BCDs usually have high trim weight pockets to the same effect. Some BCDs even have wing like buoyancy cells which give the same advantages of not squeezing you and better supporting heavy cylinders.

The choices in both can be baffling. Diving suffers from a lot of claims that x is good and y is not leading to certain products being seen as better than other with little proof. I suggest trying stuff out and seeing what you get on with. In particular do not expect that what suits one of you will suit the other.

The wing I sort of ought to buy is a middle size single wing. Usually I only dive a single in 3mm suit tropical conditions and so I have very small 9kg wing for that. These last few weeks I have been diving a single in UK (shore dives and car space issues) with a twinset wing (20kg) and it has been a bit nasty as the dump valve was hard to reach and the inflator hose would occasionally escape behind me. I say this to illustrate that wings need to fit the application.

I spent Friday and Saturday out diving with a bunch of random Scottish divers mostly using independent twins, Buddy TecWings (a backinflate BCD) monochrome Suunto computers and all sorts of kit that SB people would hate. They all had a lovely time, including the 80 year old. Don’t let kit fascists spoil your diving, and especially do be a kit facist and spoil your other half’s diving.

 

[Imla]

I never heard of BP/W until I joined Scubaboard a few weeks ago. Now I'm intrigued. My wife and I are in the process of getting OW certified and have gathered all our needed dive gear except BCD, regulators and tanks. We have spent enough $$ this year on certification and the gear we have so we are putting off the rest of the gear until next year. That does not mean I'm not shopping around!

Would I we be better off just buying a commercial BCD to start and wait until we get the experience to decide what we want before going the BP/W route, or is it worthwhile to go straight to the customizable option? I'm a pretty mechanically skilled guy (used to be a motorcycle mechanic), so I think I can deal with the assembly, disassembly and adjustments, etc.

If I go with the BP/W option, how do I decide what to start with? It would be a single tank. What else?

If you are interested in a girls pow. Go for the BPW. I did my OW in a backinflate Zeage Ranger, bought a Zeagle Tech as my first BCD. I have done 2 dives in a jacket, and I had an Bionic travel bcd. The common denominator of the all were a disproportionate amount of lead needed to sink the s*** and they all ended up underneath my armpits and up over my ears. In 2013 I got my BPW, a Halcyon kit and have never looked back. Having an A shape it is quite impossible to get a cummerbund type bcd to stay put. You end up dragging and pulling more or less the whole dive. With a BPW (with a crotchstrap, they are absolutely not uncomfortable) the lead needed is to sink you, not the bcd. The crochstrap keeps the bcd in the position it is supposed to be in. The webbing harness leaves room for "the girls" whilst staying put and stable on the back. If you or your wife are short, getting a small backplate might be prudent. I have a standard DIR hogarthian setup with a Dring on left hip, one D ring on each shoulderstrap and a D ring front and back on the crotchstrap. Along with my two suit-pockets this is enough space to store everything from backuplights via scooter, camera, stages and other stuff. A well fitted harness will not be problematic to put on for a normally stiff person. I have a neuromusculardisease and with a bit of technique, I have no issues getting it on and off. If your wife has questions about BPW from a female perspective, just shoot a message.