Over breathing your reg

[Celt]

I think what happened here is a lot more common than we think. The op hyperventilated in response to not been able to keep up with his buddies, hyperventilating results in a sudden drop in CO2 which causes a feeling of not been able to get an adequate breath. The bodies answer is to flee to the surface and mistakenly safety. There’s only one foolproof buddy, a bailout system. Lesson learned.

 

[johndiver999]

Bingo.

"That having been said, if any new diver finds themselves alone with a significant gas delivery problem and no alternate gas supply, I wouldn't blame them at all for just surfacing. Whatever problem there is with the gear, it's better dealt with on the roof. A borderline panicked new diver alone in the ocean at depth is a bad situation."

I don't think that it makes sense to imply that an inexperienced, panicked, unintentionally solo diver with a gas delivery problem at depth needs to deal with the problem underwater. I think that's a recipe for disaster. Events spiral out of control in seconds. Why would we tell a new diver who is in that situation that they need to fix the problem at depth? Why would we even put the idea in their head that ascending to the surface is something to be avoided?

In the paragraph before this one, I pointed out that pretty much everyone said that the first thing to do when hyperventilating is to take a vent. No argument there, and no one was saying that at the first sign of trouble they should make an uncontrolled dash to the surface.

There is a reason why in Mod 1 CCR training they tell you to just bail out if you aren't sure what the problem is, but you know there is a problem. Sure, many things can be fixed while staying on the loop. The more experience you have, the more likely you are to be able to do that. But no one should be shamed for that choice, especially if they are on the verge of panic.

Same concept in this situation.

Maybe I'm a still a little slow since I don't know anything about rebreathers - so the CCR training is analogous to the OP's situation because it involves telling the diver to head for the surface if there is an unknown problem - rather than address it in situ?

 

[doctormike]

Maybe I'm a still a little slow since I don't know anything about rebreathers - so the CCR training is analogous to the OP's situation because it involves telling the diver to head for the surface if there is an unknown problem - rather than address it in situ?

The analogy is fix at depth vs. bailout, as opposed to the OC fix at depth vs surface. So it's an analogy.

I think that you are making this into a straw man argument - maybe you are genuinely interested in my opinion, maybe you are just having fun, not sure. But the point is that no one, including me, is saying "if anyone ever has any sort of problem scuba diving, you run to the surface as fast as you can".

I was pretty clear about the parameters of my recommendation. But to use your phrasing, then yes, I would say that if a new diver has a "unknown problem", they are better off surfacing. That doesn't mean losing a fin. That doesn't even mean losing a buddy. But a new diver who is hyperventilating, panicking, alone and breathing from a wet regulator should make a safe ascent. Or at least not feel that making a safe ascent is a poor option.

 

[jgttrey]

In Mod 1, which is the first module of CCR training, you are taught, as a newbie to rebreathers, to get off the loop and bailout if there is any issue: When in doubt, bailout. That doesn't automatically result in surfacing, because once youre on bailout you may be able to work through the issue, but the idea is that a less experienced diver should not try to solve a problem, or even spend the time to diagnose it, while still breathing on a loop that is potentially compromised.

In Mod 2/3, you learn to to use more judgment about when bailout is necessary and how to quickly diagnose and solve problems while staying on the loop, if possible. On dives with more deco or overheads, staying on the loop if you can is a good thing.

 

[MinimalMayhem]

People here say you can't over-breathe a reg. But I was told you could over-breathe a diaphragm reg. I actually got into a big argument here about it. I think you would have to be pretty deep, and task loading.

Thats why I use a piston reg, cause there is no chance you can over-breathe it. When I am spearfishing and shoot a big fish in 100 ft plus, I will suck down a 133 in no time. Ive seen the critically low warning on my Teric too many times lol

I'm not sure you've been given good advice there. Maybe you know something I don't, but when I did my service tech training we discussed gas delivery and both (modern) through-piston and balanced diaphragms will dish out more gas than you can suck down safely without risk of CO2 retention (if properly tuned) at anything but depths where you should probably be using helium to reduce gas density.

 

[doctormike]

Thats why I use a piston reg, cause there is no chance you can over-breathe it. When I am spearfishing and shoot a big fish in 100 ft plus, I will suck down a 133 in no time. Ive seen the critically low warning on my Teric too many times lol

Uh, just for the new divers, you can run out of gas just as easily with a piston reg as with a diaphragm reg. That's not what over-breathing means.

lol.

 

[johndiver999]

The analogy is fix at depth vs. bailout, as opposed to the OC fix at depth vs surface. So it's an analogy.

I think that you are making this into a straw man argument - maybe you are genuinely interested in my opinion, maybe you are just having fun, not sure. But the point is that no one, including me, is saying "if anyone ever has any sort of problem scuba diving, you run to the surface as fast as you can".

I was pretty clear about the parameters of my recommendation. But to use your phrasing, then yes, I would say that if a new diver has a "unknown problem", they are better off surfacing. That doesn't mean losing a fin. That doesn't even mean losing a buddy. But a new diver who is hyperventilating, panicking, alone and breathing from a wet regulator should make a safe ascent. Or at least not feel that making a safe ascent is a poor option.

I think we agree far more than disagree. I think my main idea was that all divers, when encountering a problem should first consider two options: go up or consider trying to devise a solution on the bottom. That is the first step in the decision tree.

As you correctly indicated, the more experienced a diver is, the more likely he will be able formulate a solution at depth and implement it successfully.

Tech divers and/or divers with an overhead or deco may completely loose the option of going straight up.

So my suggestion is that (if possible) a recreational diver should be THINKING of staying and fixing and not going up. I won’t tell a diver NOT to go up or shame them for doing it in certain situations, because quite often it is the best solution and if you delay and don’t realize it soon enough, the viability of that option may expire.

With respect to the op’s predicament, if he was thinking his reg was wet and leaking water, then he should immediately consider going to the octopus and I mean right away.

If the problem is that the diver is out of breath than his first decision should be can I control my instinct to head up and simply rest and recover and worry about nothing else for 60 or 90 Seconds???? If the diver feels he can’t do that, then instinct is going to govern anyway and he will be compelled to go up right away.

Regardless, the end result is that the diver is going to ascend, since he is alone and could be expected to follow lost buddy protocol.

 

[IncreaseMyT]

Uh, just for the new divers, you can run out of gas just as easily with a piston reg as with a diaphragm reg. That's not what over-breathing means.

lol.

Were you laughing at yourself? A piston reg delivers more air than a diaphragm reg FACT. LOL

 

[doctormike]

Were you laughing at yourself? A piston reg delivers more air than a diaphragm reg FACT. LOL

If you say so!

 

[Marivan377]

Just a little FYI for everyone this was my 7th dive. I’ve never had this issue on any other dives I have done.