Mares horizon: just add water?

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Hi
i often see this argument regarding sccr:

"easy to get nitrox anywhere in the world, even in places where you can't get O2"

and i dont get it as most of the places which propose Nx, get it by blending (partial or continious) rather than by membrane. So, no pb to get o2...
 
They sell an indicating version, which I use in my CCR

I stand corrected. Haven't seen it myself, and was told that indicating ones are not recommended for diving per US Navy specifications.

and i dont get it as most of the places which propose Nx, get it by blending (partial or continious) rather than by membrane. So, no pb to get o2...

I reality, getting a fill of 100% 02 may still be very difficult in many places. Local regulations may prevent it, or it is just not usual practise outside a few tech/rebreather shops even if they use 100% O2 for cfm blending.
 
Wow!

8 hours to R&R the CLs?!? Holy smokes! That doesn't include any other work? JUST opening the box, swapping the CLs, and putting the box back together??

Their website says $65/hour for labor. (maybe that's USD vs CDN?) Even so, between the labor and the cost of the parts, that is nuts!

AddHelium services rEvos. Not that I'm recommending them. It's just an observation. Did you check with them about either selling you CLs or doing the work for you? Peter (at AddHelium) quoted me around $600 for a 5-year service. I don't know, but I would have thought if they can do the 5-year service for that, they could replace the CLs while working on it, for just the cost of the parts. But, maybe the 5-year service is not nearly as in-depth as I thought....?

Hi Stuart...

The costs I quoted in the above post are accurate...in Canadian Dollars...

I can't speak for what Peter is and isn't doing at Add Helium as far as ''servicing'' rEvo rebreathers...
I would expect if he is performing service ''in-house''...any consumer should be able to purchase a pair of rEvo counter-lungs from Add Helium...with the installation kits...and ''self install'' the pieces...I don't believe that's the case...

I've made several requests to Add Helium for rEvo parts...and was told on each occasion the parts I requested were not in stock...probably never were...not their fault...they're not factory serviced authorized...probably couldn't get the parts if they wanted to...

I believe Peter may be re-forwarding any rEvo units to OEO for service...

To the best of my knowledge OEO is the only North American rEvo distributor who has received factory authorized rEvo service training and has the only ''rEvo'' testing equipment outside of rEvo in Belgium ...and they intend to keep it that way...all the rEvo parts on OEO's on-line parts list are only available...''installed by OEO''...so you can add return shipping and ''high cost labor'' to all the parts on their list...and you can be sure...if they have your complete unit in front of them...on their work bench...they're going to use their ''liability'' as an excuse...and tell you there are other ''items'' that need attention...and of course you're going to say...go ahead and fix it...

I could be wrong...but I doubt it...and I'll obligingly stand corrected if I am wrong...

If the same holds true for the Horizon...OEO will likely have service/parts locked up as well...

These kinds of marketing/sales/service protocols are the prime reason that so many ''perfectly fine'' rebreathers show up so soon on ''grey'' used sales sites...just look at the Explorer as one example...the original purchasers bought all these rebreathers in ''good faith''...with high expectations...now they're all but worthless...

Time will tell...with the horizon...there will likely be lots of ''used units'' available soon...inexpensive to buy...''not so inexpensive'' to keep fully operational...especially with the electronics...that's only if support is maintained...and if chronic issues start to develop...support will be the first thing to go...

Best...

Warren...
 
Hi
i often see this argument regarding sccr:

"easy to get nitrox anywhere in the world, even in places where you can't get O2"

and i dont get it as most of the places which propose Nx, get it by blending (partial or continious) rather than by membrane. So, no pb to get o2...

Jale...

In full agreement...from everything I can identify on the Horizon...it appears to be using ''off-board'' gas supply...not integrated or ''on-board''...

Ease of NITROX availability while travelling is one thing...small tank availability ''not so much''...you may have to end up slinging rented AL 80's...and you're likely still going to have to take your own absorbent...

It's not going to be as ''travel friendly'' as Mares/rEvo claims...it never is...vague shady marketing + impulse buying = sell on E-Bay...

Best...

Warren
 
Hi
i often see this argument regarding sccr:

"easy to get nitrox anywhere in the world, even in places where you can't get O2"

and i dont get it as most of the places which propose Nx, get it by blending (partial or continious) rather than by membrane. So, no pb to get o2...

Unless it's banked EAN, delivered at intervals.
 
Hi Stuart...

The costs I quoted in the above post are accurate...in Canadian Dollars...

I can't speak for what Peter is and isn't doing at Add Helium as far as ''servicing'' rEvo rebreathers...
I would expect if he is performing service ''in-house''...any consumer should be able to purchase a pair of rEvo counter-lungs from Add Helium...with the installation kits...and ''self install'' the pieces...I don't believe that's the case...

I've made several requests to Add Helium for rEvo parts...and was told on each occasion the parts I requested were not in stock...probably never were...not their fault...they're not factory serviced authorized...probably couldn't get the parts if they wanted to...

I believe Peter may be re-forwarding any rEvo units to OEO for service....

I stopped in at Add Helium in December when I was on my way to the Keys for my rEvo training. My buddy and I just happened to run into Peter Sotis walking down the hall and that turned into a long, friendly chat and a tour of the place. My buddy wanted to buy a few spares for his rEvo. Peter grabbed a cardboard box and took us back into his warehouse area and pulled the parts off the shelves himself, for my buddy.

I can assure you they do have a decent stock of rEvo parts in hand and they do service the units themselves, there in their shop. Their service area was pretty impressive to me, actually. Some very OCD person put it together, for sure. :)
 
I stopped in at Add Helium in December when I was on my way to the Keys for my rEvo training. My buddy and I just happened to run into Peter Sotis walking down the hall and that turned into a long, friendly chat and a tour of the place. My buddy wanted to buy a few spares for his rEvo. Peter grabbed a cardboard box and took us back into his warehouse area and pulled the parts off the shelves himself, for my buddy.

I can assure you they do have a decent stock of rEvo parts in hand and they do service the units themselves, there in their shop. Their service area was pretty impressive to me, actually. Some very OCD person put it together, for sure. :)

Thank you Stuart...

I'll have to see if they have counter-lungs and installation kits for a rEvo III Standard Manual...

Best...

Warren
 
The idea of a mass market for rebreather diving (be it CCR or SCR) is neglecting a few simple facts and the reality about human nature (in particular that of most recreational divers), which is that we are easily distracted and no too found of strict discipline.
- The unit as shown uses granular scrubber (the Explorer at least was using pre-packed material): dirty, takes time to prepare, space to store, etc.
- the rMS probes fail over time, when they don't act up in between. Replacement cost on a rEvo: several $100. Since their reading is not particularly informative (don't get me started on this), most of my buddies (and myself) just didn't replace them when they died.
- unit build: lots of steps and checks, some of which can fail, and you must be ready to rebuild, recheck and possibly change parts, etc.
- calibration, predive checks: more time, need for concentration and potential problems to solve on the spot, or can the dive.
- unit cleaning: take apart, make sure you don't rinse the electronics, let everything dry. This takes time, space and can be messy.
- replacement parts: batteries, O2 cells and O-rings. Some battery compartment flooding is possible too, requiring expensive parts replacement. HUD can fail, computer can fail.
- training: initial and continuous. You need to dive the unit frequently and almost exclusively to remain proficient and safe.
- buoyancy, work of breathing, not mentioning the bailout valve's: all new things which one needs to be aware is different from the easy world of OC diving.

All in all, as much as I wished rebreather diving was simpler than it is, it's just not, and frankly, you need to need a rebreather to justify using one, as it's just a big pain in the rear most of the time (and I dive a rEvo, which is a tank). Listen to manufacturers and instructors with a wary ear: it is their understandable interest that potential clients believe the opposite.
Poseidon and Hollis have tried, now Mares...
 
One of their marketing photos shows a young couple tossing their Horizons into the back of an SUV...tell this petite young thing she's going to have to sling a pair of AL 80's...I can already hear her saying...let's go to the bar instead...

You need to get out more if you don't think there are female divers that can handle doubles just fine.
 
The idea of a mass market for rebreather diving (be it CCR or SCR) is neglecting a few simple facts and the reality about human nature (in particular that of most recreational divers), which is that we are easily distracted and no too found of strict discipline.
- The unit as shown uses granular scrubber (the Explorer at least was using pre-packed material): dirty, takes time to prepare, space to store, etc.
- the rMS probes fail over time, when they don't act up in between. Replacement cost on a rEvo: several $100. Since their reading is not particularly informative (don't get me started on this), most of my buddies (and myself) just didn't replace them when they died.
- unit build: lots of steps and checks, some of which can fail, and you must be ready to rebuild, recheck and possibly change parts, etc.
- calibration, predive checks: more time, need for concentration and potential problems to solve on the spot, or can the dive.
- unit cleaning: take apart, make sure you don't rinse the electronics, let everything dry. This takes time, space and can be messy.
- replacement parts: batteries, O2 cells and O-rings. Some battery compartment flooding is possible too, requiring expensive parts replacement. HUD can fail, computer can fail.
- training: initial and continuous. You need to dive the unit frequently and almost exclusively to remain proficient and safe.
- buoyancy, work of breathing, not mentioning the bailout valve's: all new things which one needs to be aware is different from the easy world of OC diving.

All in all, as much as I wished rebreather diving was simpler than it is, it's just not, and frankly, you need to need a rebreather to justify using one, as it's just a big pain in the rear most of the time (and I dive a rEvo, which is a tank). Listen to manufacturers and instructors with a wary ear: it is their understandable interest that potential clients believe the opposite.
Poseidon and Hollis have tried, now Mares...

UWX...

You're correct...

I enjoy assembly/proofing/disassembly/cleaning/drying/inspecting...my rebreather as much as I enjoy diving it...which I do full time...without switching between OC...and SCR...

During the dive season...my shop...and several other areas are littered with ''drying'' rebreather parts...

I believe to fully enjoy the rebreather...you have to enjoy all aspects such as you have detailed...

Complications aren't complications at all unless there are components within the system as a whole that you want nothing to do with...

It's a package...and you have to like ''everything'' that's in the bag...

That's why there are...on the grand scale...so few rebreather divers...so many rebreathers that have failed the time test...and so few rebreathers that have stood the test of time...

The Horizon just may be the ''better mousetrap''...or just another in the long list of temporary failed experiments...tick...tick...tick...we'll see...

Best...and again...great post...

Warren
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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