13 year old diver dies - Oahu, Hawaii

[Carl_F]

I don’t think it’s possible to pay close attention to 4 different people at the same time. And unless two are shoulder to shoulder on one side of the instructor and the other two are shoulder to shoulder on the other side of the instructor then the instructor is bound to be too far away from at least one of the four.

It's nigh impossible. I did it once during my cross-over course and it was not fun. But two on one side, two on the other puts the two outer divers out of reach and unable to be immediately contacted.

From the IM:

• Position yourself so that you or a certified assistant can make immediate physical contact with, adjust buoyancy for, and render assistance to, participants.

 

[Carl_F]

Meh, (speculation) a glance at your SPG or computer and the kid bolts to the surface holding his breath. Unfortunate timing. I'd be willing to bet on every DS dive the pro does not have eyes on the customer every single second. In fact, I know it. It's impossible. At some point you have to check your gauges.

You're allowed to check your gauges. From the IM:

• Continually observe participants with only the brief, periodic interruptions needed to lead the dive and to provide assistance to individual divers.

But if that brief interruption results in a DSD being lost due to current or visibility then the risk assessment/ sound judgment part of the standards was violated.

 

[Bob DBF]

This is yet another thread that convinces me that DSD should be 1:1 or discontinued. It's hard to understand how trained proffessionals and the agencies they affiliate with can't see that.


Bob

 

[Wookie]

This is yet another thread that convinces me that DSD should be 1:1 or discontinued. It's hard to understand how trained proffessionals and the agencies they affiliate with can't see that.


Bob

Follow the money...

 

[wgw04024]

It is one step less than having a DSD for an astronaut.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Meh, (speculation) a glance at your SPG or computer and the kid bolts to the surface holding his breath. Unfortunate timing. I'd be willing to bet on every DS dive the pro does not have eyes on the customer every single second. In fact, I know it. It's impossible. At some point you have to check your gauges.

False. Kid had zero ocean experience. Korean 13 year old boy. We know I know that they have no experience. Dive operator has a 13 year old thats never been in the ocean can probably barely swim and not in the ocean. Lets say he had that private dive master at his side..... and that DM would watch him and know he cant barely swim. is totally uncomfortable.... has NO situational awareness and is barely BARELY a teenager. 13.

That DM is going to be HYPER AWARE this kid can likely die any second. Any normal human DM adult would know this. It isnt about watching everyone. Its about watching the most likely person to die and to me as a diver or as a tourist on an island i would point to the 13 year old korean boy as the most at risk.

factor in almost zero visibility..yea 10 to at most 15 feet is almost zero for people that arent certified.....ADD IN A STRONG CURRENT THAT DAY WHICH WASNT NORMAL....and you have instant death ....as a grown adult id have known on my first dive of OW training that that situation was dangerous for me and im a strong swimming man comfortable in water.

for a little boy never in the ocean before..... you GOTTA be kidding me if you think a dive master wouldnt know thats asking for body bags.

your excuses dont work.

that DM isnt watching ten plus people he should be calling the dive due to current and visibility. he should be watching that little boy. more than grown adults.

we have an obligation to protect children no excuses or questions asked no matter what. you are part of the DSD working that day? then DO SOMETHING to keep the kid out of the water or put others at some risk to make sure a the korean boy lives.

 

[CuzzA]

False. Kid had zero ocean experience. Korean 13 year old boy. We know I know that they have no experience. Dive operator has a 13 year old thats never been in the ocean can probably barely swim and not in the ocean. Lets say he had that private dive master at his side..... and that DM would watch him and know he cant barely swim. is totally uncomfortable.... has NO situational awareness and is barely BARELY a teenager. 13.

That DM is going to be HYPER AWARE this kid can likely die any second. Any normal human DM adult would know this. It isnt about watching everyone. Its about watching the most likely person to die and to me as a diver or as a tourist on an island i would point to the 13 year old korean boy as the most at risk.

factor in almost zero visibility..yea 10 to at most 15 feet is almost zero for people that arent certified.....ADD IN A STRONG CURRENT THAT DAY WHICH WASNT NORMAL....and you have instant death ....as a grown adult id have known on my first dive of OW training that that situation was dangerous for me and im a strong swimming man comfortable in water.

for a little boy never in the ocean before..... you GOTTA be kidding me if you think a dive master wouldnt know thats asking for body bags.

your excuses dont work.

that DM isnt watching ten plus people he should be calling the dive due to current and visibility. he should be watching that little boy. more than grown adults.

we have an obligation to protect children no excuses or questions asked no matter what. you are part of the DSD working that day? then DO SOMETHING to keep the kid out of the water or put others at some risk to make sure a the korean boy lives.

Not sure what you're talking about, buddy. And I'll tell you right now, you and I won't get along here if you twist my words or make ignorant assumptions about my intentions. I'm not making excuses for anyone, rather I'm pointing out the problem with a DSD or even the first open water dives. This isn't limited to just DSDs either. Every year we have BOW students die on their first dive as they panic. Diving is dangerous, a DSD with a kid increases the potential of an accident. You think because the standards say xyz, that everyone is safe. Meanwhile, this thread has countless posts questioning if DSD should even be conducted, especially with kids. Why do you think that is? If you believe someone has eyes on you every second of a dive, whether DSD or not, then I'd say you haven't dived much or are just naive to the realities of diving.


And before you fire away, get your facts right. You are also injecting your own speculation to support your arguments. Show me where this dive was conducted with ten people, including the boy, and one DM. Also, the kid was not from Korea and we don't know how he ended up on this dive with no ocean experience, nor has anyone said he couldn't swim. You are adding speculation and passing it off as facts. It's one of three possibilities. The operator could've ****** up and took him knowing he lacked experience, the operator may not have asked or his parents could have lied because they really wanted to do the dive.

The DSD shouldn't have taken place given the conditions we know from witnesses. Everything else is made up speculation until more information is released.

 

[cerich]

Not sure what you're talking about, buddy. And I'll tell you right now, you and I won't get along here if you twist my words or make ignorant assumptions about my intentions. I'm not making excuses for anyone, rather I'm pointing out the problem with a DSD or even the first open water dives. This isn't limited to just DSDs either. Every year we have BOW students die on their first dive as they panic. Diving is dangerous, a DSD with a kid increases the potential of an accident. You think because the standards say xyz, that everyone is safe. Meanwhile, this thread has countless posts questioning if DSD should even be conducted, especially with kids. Why do you think that is? If you believe someone has eyes on you every second of a dive, whether DSD or not, then I'd say you haven't dived much or are just naive to the realities of diving.


And before you fire away, get your facts right. You are also injecting your own speculation to support your arguments. Show me where this dive was conducted with ten people, including the boy, and one DM. Also, the kid was not from Korea and we don't know how he ended up on this dive with no ocean experience, nor has anyone said he couldn't swim. You are adding speculation and passing it off as facts. It's one of three possibilities. The operator could've ****** up and took him knowing he lacked experience, the operator may not have asked or his parents could have lied because they really wanted to do the dive.

The DSD shouldn't have taken place given the conditions we know from witnesses. Everything else is made up speculation until more information is released.

I am in Sharm, here the law requires that intro be done 1:1 and that the instructor be hands on. Just saying...I like it.

I have also taught thousands of intro/resort/ssd whatever you want to call it so have some frame of reference as to what is allowed by standards and what is actually safe

 

[CuzzA]

I am in Sharm, here the law requires that intro be done 1:1 and that the instructor be hands on. Just saying...I like it.

I have also taught thousands of intro/resort/ssd whatever you want to call it so have some frame of reference as to what is allowed by standards and what is actually safe

Indeed. At a minimum that is how it should be done and if conditions aren't perfect, call the dive.

I would like to know how this dive was orchestrated. It appears there was an instructor on the dive, not just a DM. The lawyers use of "Team Members" leads me to believe there was more than one pro on the dive, but we don't know.

Maybe we'll get lucky and a witness who was on the dive will chime in and tell us what really happened. Who was paired with who. Unfortunately the news reporters never ask the right questions.

 

[kelemvor]

I am in Sharm, here the law requires that intro be done 1:1 and that the instructor be hands on. Just saying...I like it.

I have also taught thousands of intro/resort/ssd whatever you want to call it so have some frame of reference as to what is allowed by standards and what is actually safe

We need a similar law, since the dive agencies have failed to self-regulate this issue properly in the US.