Is there a valid reason for a pony bottle

[Gareth J]

I don't see the connection. Before Octopus you buddy breathed - taking it in turns with 1 reg.

If you mean that having a pony means you don't need to be concerned about your buddy because "you're alright" then I would disagree

I did an awful lot of buddy breathing ascents from 20m (as an instructor), before we changed the training and assessment procedures. I am really, really pleased I never had to do it for real, even with practiced 'current' divers, running an exercise, it was seldom comfortable. A number where touch and go.

The reason 'Buddy Breathing' was dropped from the training scheme, was the regular 'double casualty' incidents when there was an OOG incident.
Relying on Buddy Breathing, when technology had advanced to provide an Octopus made no sense, the risk's where higher, the outcome poorer, the number of fatalities higher. In addition, it was notable, that there was so much time and practice attempting to achieve competence with buddy breathing, that divers with Octopuses started buddy breathing, muscle memory taking over during the stress of an incident.

Can we inject a poll to see how many minds were changed. At 38 pages there must be some.
I can't stop looking at this thread until I know. Help...

I suspect there are some very entrenched views.

 

[flyboy08]

Why is changing ones opinion important? I'm not here to bestow my risk management on others... if you dive without a pony I wont look at you any differently than if you did.....I'm perfectly fine looking like a dork

 

[markmud]

At most places, you can’t request larger tanks....period.

Great point flyboy08,

The only option is to side-mount two AL80s in most tropical places I dive.

markm

 

[KenGordon]

Great point flyboy08,

The only option is to side-mount two AL80s in most tropical places I dive.

markm

Couldn’t you side mount just one? A 80cuft pony?

 

[Joneill]

My "Issue" is not about carrying ponies. My issue is that often those carrying them get complacent.

Carrying a pony doesn't mean you can pay less attention to:

You gas contents
Your equipment serviceability and maintenance
Your buddy
Diving within your limits and experience

Too often in my experience some people just let their standards slip knowing that they have this redundant gas supply at hand.

A pony is just another line of defence - and extra level of safety but it doesn't replace any of the fundamental skills and procedures taught at OW level.

It would also help like any other basic skill, people regularly practiced. When the SHTF you want your reactions to be fluid and well practiced.

I'm not trying to preach nor are my comments aimed at anyone in particular. But they are based on witnessed events and actions of others.

And yes, when I first started to carry a pony, I let my skills slip too fortunately without any negative incidents. So this is based upon my own experience in order that others may learn.

I’m not getting why some here equate using a pony to becoming a complacent diver? Why would it? It actually takes extra effort and planning to transport, fill and gear up with one - so these guys are thinking about a little more than most divers. Does diving with a buddy who has an octo make you complacent? Just not getting the connection at all.

In my, admittedly limited experience, the folks I’ve seen diving with pony’s have been experienced divers with good technique and were helpful mentors to others. On a recent LDS trip to Bonaire, several of the experienced guys were diving with pony bottles and were great buddies and had lots of helpful technique suggestions for us newer divers.

These are guys who dive doubles and rebreathers in the cold murky NJ ocean dives and have many hundreds to thousands of dives - not complacent at all.

 

[KenGordon]

There's of course the alternate view point which is that a pony isn't sufficiently large enough to be a redundant air supply, which is definitely a valid point for certain conditions.

If you look carefully you might find this is a common criticism of the pony on this thread.

 

[markmud]

I don't think reading this thread, people are (for the most part) really saying this.

However people seem to jump to them as a panacea for all diving issues.

Having one does not replace, the need for good buddy procedures (both predive and underwater) , the need for maintaining, taking care of and being aware of the state of your equipment, nor for monitoring your gas and diving conservatively for the given conditions.

Some people jump into one as almost a "fashion statement", taking false confidence from wearing one. They are not kryptonite and do not make anyone immortal.
A pony isn't' any use if you don't' practice, and it's use isn't second nature and can be used automatically

I use a Pony, but having it is in addition to all of the above it points. Having a pony doesn't mean I can ignore them

Hi Diving Dubai,

Your post above was in response to my post #346.

In a very polite and subtle way, you are proving my point.

Why do you care if I sling a pony since my pony won't be endangering you?

I have been trained to use ponies and deco bottles by, arguably, one of the best instructors on the west coast. Both a solo course and a tec 40 course. I do practice with my ponies.

Fashion Statement? I have been ridiculed, talked down to, accused of being an air hog, a DM started to re-rig my kit on one boat while he was scolding me in front of the entire boat for my tank position, my pony, and my hog-looped second stage (the DM I was diving with got in the other guys face and told him that I was a very good diver and to leave his customers alone).

Why are you wound-up because I like the redundancy that a pony bottle provides when I dive? I have made the choice that I am not going to hold my breath while I chase down a buddy who got enthralled by something and is AWOL. I am not going to do a CESA if the need arises. It is part of my risk assessment for diving. My personal choice.

You dive your way and I will dive my way. You are not the only one who knows how to use a pony. Dive and let dive!

thanks for responding to my post,
markm

 

[markmud]

Couldn’t you side mount just one? A 80cuft pony?

Hi Ken,

Um, a, dunno! I am not side-mount trained...

I know a few side-mount divers and they tell me that an empty bottle on one side and a full one on the others side makes swim with a list. Would your thought cause balance problems?

markm

 

[grf88]

If you look carefully you might find this is a common criticism of the pony on this thread.

A pony is defined by its intended use, not by its size. Mine would typically be 40 cu.ft. as its buoyancy characteristics make it almost disappear underwater.

 

[doctormike]

Hi Ken,

Um, a, dunno! I am not side-mount trained...

I know a few side-mount divers and they tell me that an empty bottle on one side and a full one on the others side makes swim with a list. Would your thought cause balance problems?

markm

My "pony" when I am diving my rebreather and not doing deco is an AL80 slung on one side (sidemount style), with nothing on the other side. Never noticed any balance problems.