Best practices of GUE versus other dive programs ?

[sigxbill]

What are the best practices recommended by GUE that, according to your experience, should be incorporated into the basic open water courses of all the other dive programs around the world?
None. It is a complete system. It shouldn't be ripped apart. Best to experience it with GUE

What dive programs have already incorporated some or most of these aspects?
Very few - because they say it's the instructor, not the agency. But why learn from the copiers? Better to learn it from where it all started ...

Are there dive programs that are superior to GUE in terms of diver safety and anticipation of potential problems?
IMHO yes ... only one though ...

 

[RainPilot]

The only complaint (legitimate is my opinion) is that for tech training they only allow for one deco dive per day. If anyone from RAID can confirm/dispute that, please chime in.

In the General Standards there is a limit of 3 training dives per day for students, as well a maximum number of try dives a person may do. There is no restriction on the deco side in the General Standards or in the Deco40 or Deco50 material.

I don't have the materials for deeper courses than that, I know the 60m and 100m courses are being re-written.

 

[KenGordon]

But why learn from the copiers? Better to learn it from where it all started ...

You know that they have been at this for only 20 years? There were other “technical” agencies long before. The AP Inspiration was already on sale before they were formed. Even if you take the WKPP as the start of GUE they were not where it all started.

So maybe we should take ‘extremely clever marketing’ vs other programs

 

[KenGordon]

That's why most GUE divers dive with other GUE divers , it's cool to travel half way around the globe to find a GUE community and dive knowing you're going too dive with someone who has trained the same , use standard gas , rec/tech profiles , deco obligations are all the same and thinking on the same page on time.

Really though, any properly trained diver from any agency can manage to dive with another properly trained diver from another agency.

I had an insta buddy on a recent trip. He was trained by some agency beginning with an I. He was using a regular twinset and single deco gas and was rigged just as I would have been if OC. We spent a couple of minutes discussing plans, maximum depts, maximum TTS and so forth. Then we went diving. At one point one of the GUE divers on the boat joined us as his buddy had some issue or other. Weirdly enough we all managed fine.

Much too much over analysing.

 

[leadduck]

What are the best practices recommended by GUE that, according to your experience, should be incorporated into the basic open water courses of all the other dive programs around the world.

What dive programs have already incorporated some or most of these aspects ?

Are there dive programs that are superior to GUE in terms of diver safety and anticipation of potential problems ?

I think the main point is taking the time to teach it. The problem with vacation divers' classes is that they are optimized to be done in the shortest time possible, certifying divers after barely meeting minimum standards. Most instructors could produce better results (teach skills hovering, better trim, buddy awareness, ...) if they only had the time and number of dives in the OWD class to do that.

I see some places offering options for students: you can either take the OWD class, or a CMAS* that takes one more day, one more dive, more theory lessons, and costs 20% more. I can see people taking that route, there are many who don't want the cheapest option but are perfectly willing to invest a little more time and money for quality if the choice is easy and available.

 

[taimen]

Then we went diving. At one point one of the GUE divers on the boat joined us as his buddy had some issue or other. Weirdly enough we all managed fine.

You did not end up in any problems where differences in training and procedures might be an issue.

 

[sigxbill]

You know that they have been at this for only 20 years? There were other “technical” agencies long before. The AP Inspiration was already on sale before they were formed. Even if you take the WKPP as the start of GUE they were not where it all started.

Yes I know it has only been 20 years, and btw, the inspiration was the first ccr I was trained on. I also know that not counting PSAI, IANTD kicked off technical training in 1985, and the two cave organizations were teaching cave before that. BUT, I can also tell you from first hand experience that NONE OF THEM were teaching the level of precision that GUE standardized! GUE is solely responsible for the precision movement that started revolutionizing advanced diving! How do I know? Because I was already technically trained by multiple technical and cave agencies when I finally started GUE Fundamentals in 2001 to see what all the commotion was about - and I struggled!

So maybe you were part of an extremely exclusive group that practiced the precision of DIR prior to WKPP. BUT since I personally witnessed how GUE/UTD singlehandedly transformed the way some others practice Hogarthian + skilled diving today, it would be historical fiction to attribute that transformational pressure to anyone else - imho.

cheers

 

[boulderjohn]

Does anyone currently responding to this thread remember what its topic is supposed to be?

What are the best practices recommended by GUE that, according to your experience, should be incorporated into the basic open water courses of all the other dive programs around the world.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Sheck Exley actually came up with an idea to teach cavern skills to open water divers back in the 1980's, but never got it off the ground due to being busy exploring caves. When Andrew Georgitsis approached GUE with the idea for "fundies" he was told that the program would make the agency the laughing stock of the tech world. Andrew was allowed to teach it as a workshop. That's when I took GUE-F around '99. The program demonstrated its success and became the gateway course.

 

[boulderjohn]

The program demonstrated its success and became the gateway course.

...for cave diving, not for basic OW training.