Best practices of GUE versus other dive programs ?

[Addicted2H2O]

This is why GUE and UTD not only teach you to dive but also build a dive community of like minded divers. I always wanted to have myself as my dive buddy. GUE and UTD will give me that.

Agreed. But my point is that is you're doing pretty much an public diving around the world, you're not as likely to dive with GUE/UTD trained divers as you are the larger more well-known agencies' divers.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Agreed. But my point is that is you're doing pretty much an public diving around the world, you're not as likely to dive with GUE/UTD trained divers as you are the larger more well-known agencies' divers.

A lot of us who are diving around the world bring our own like-minded buddies. Also, the number of GUE/UTD trained divers is growing every day. And then there are people who don't consider themselves "GUE" or "UTD" or "DIR" but somehow have adopted the essentials of the gear configuration and at least some of the techniques.

 

[Compressor]

Back to OP:
What best practice of GUE should be exported? Team work.
What practice of GUE should not be exported? Hubris of some practitioners.

 

[KenGordon]

From the outside the stuff that is laudable about GUE is nothing to do with the diving but the general approach, especially instructor standards, and not expecting to be all things to all people.

Arguing over the details of technique is missing the point. For a given technique they insist it can be done properly, within a self consistent system. They are niche, pride themselves on achieving standards and have QA in place to make sure of that the teaching is good. Being prepared to fail people, or at least insist they come back for further training, is key.

The main contrast is with PADI. Everyone has met a PADI qualified diver who is not good. If they are lucky they know and ask for help. But the scale there is probably two or three orders of magnitude different. There are other organisations which manage to produce excellent instructors. My experience with TDI instruction is every bit as good as I am told GUE is.

Many divers are a bit poor. Mostly they don’t die and the reefs will all be gone soon anyway, what does it matter?

 

[boulderjohn]

Sounds to me, though, that if GUE only allows their divers to train with equipment only 10% of the populous dives with, they're already setting them up for failure. Because let's face it, if you're doing any sort of resort diving or anything similar on location probably better than 95% of those divers will have trained using the same type of equipment everyone else is using rather than specialized gear. How many GUE divers are there compared to PADI, NAUI, SSI, etc.?

PADI has estimated that it certifies 80% of the world's OW divers, but many people think they are purposely underestmating with that figure to avoid potential monopoly issues. Some people believe the total is closer to 90%. I believe the next largest agency is SSI, and after that I am not sure--probably NAUI or maybe SDI.

Both GUE and UTD are fairly new to the OW training game. Not long ago, in the home of GUE (the Extreme Exposure dive shop in Florida), most of the OW training was done by PADI. Here is Colorado, there are no GUE or UTD OW instructors, although one instructor can teach GUE Fundamentals only. There are also no NAUI OW instructors outside of the University of Colorado program.

GUE requires that divers use a backplate and wing system when training. I don't know what the industry figures are today, but not many years ago a retailer stated in a thread that backplates and wing systems amounted to less than 1% of total BCD sales in the United States.

I do want to make clear that I dive with that setup and believe it is the best way to dive. The rest of the world apparently believes otherwise.

 

[boulderjohn]

The PADI style octo can be found ROUTINELY flapping in the breeze behind the divers tank, trapped under a strap, smashing coral, dragging through mud, etc.

To be clear, that is not a PADI system. PADI does not endorse any system.

It was created by others and is the most commonly taught system by almost all agencies in the world. PADI does not advocate any specific system. An instructor can teach a PADI class with a backplate and wing system, long hose, bungeed alternate, etc.

 

[PfcAJ]

To be clear, that is not a PADI system. PADI does not endorse any system.

It was created by others and is the most commonly taught system by almost all agencies in the world. PADI does not advocate any specific system. An instructor can teach a PADI class with a backplate and wing system, long hose, bungeed alternate, etc.

But everyone knows exactly what I’m talking about.

PADI white Knight lately.

 

[EireDiver606]

It is the strong emphasis on buoyancy and trim. But that is not unique to GUE.
There are CMAS OW courses taught that are longer and more extensive than GUE Rec1 in terms of diver safety training and problem solving skills.

I am in a CMAS club and I assure you that it has no comparison. I’ve done both by the way.

 

[boulderjohn]

But everyone knows exactly what I’m talking about.

PADI white Knight lately.

As always, I am just keeping things real. If you have followed me the past months, I have been extremely critical of them in certain areas. In these areas, all I am doing is trying to stick to the facts.

One area in which I have been critical and will continue to be critical deals with teaching OW students in horizontal trim and while neutrally buoyant, which is a far superior way to instruct and leads to students with far better skills. PADI published the article on that about 7 years ago, and when it changed its standards to include a far greater emphasis on buoyancy and trim, it accompanied those changes with a small-time propaganda campaign to get instructors to teach classes that way. What they did is pretty good, but I still regularly criticize them for not requiring it or not doing a far, far better of selling the idea. As a result, to my great frustration, the vast majority of PADI instructors probably still teach classes on the knees.

So, in regard to this thread, if you get a PADI OW class in which the instructor follows PADI's stated preference for teaching students while horizontal and neutrally buoyant, you will come out of the class with pretty good skills. If your instructor still teaches on the knees, you are much better off going with another agency that will teach that way.

 

[EireDiver606]

Exactly what I was thinking. The lack of flexibility is GUE's biggest weakness in my opinion. Well, that and the elitist attitudes that some (but not all) gue divers tend to have.

I also don't like their use of helium on OC at shallow depths (100-130'). That's a massive waste of a limited resource. My opinion is that if you're doing dives that require helium you should be doing it on a ccr. Not that I do either... between clowns making balloons and divers blowing helium out into the atmosphere it seems like a real tragedy.

Strengths? The focus on buoyancy, trim, and propulsion.. as others have stated, that's not really unique to GUE though.

Maybe look into RAID? I've not taken classes from RAID or GUE but just going by what I've read, RAID sounds like a "best of GUE" with some improvements type of agency. Maybe I've got the wrong impression.

If it was more “flexible” the standard wouldn’t be so high.
There are no elitist attitudes from GUE divers, not that I’ve seen, or heard and not that my instructor has seen or heard himself but of course, there’s always bad apples everywhere. It’s the individual not the group.

Generally they’re very down to earth and very inviting and welcoming in my experience. Even though the diving is serious, they still have loads of craic and fun. Lots more than my OW course that’s for sure!

Why do you not like the use of helium after 30m? It’s a bit more expensive for a gas that increases safety and decreases inefficiencies underwater and better prepares divers for technical later by introducing different breathing gases early on, the whole idea was to get away from deep air dives.

Maybe you have got the wrong impression.

@Trace Malinowski

What practice of GUE shouldn't be exported? Parochialism.

How is GUE parochialistic?
Having the right tool for the job isn’t parochialistic. Even if it is, isn’t it safer?