Charters not accepting certain agencies?

[Johnoly]

..... But I wonder if there is more to the story....

Gotta love the games sometimes from local providers.......
On more than one occasion, I've had a tank fill refused because they didn't trust the other shop's VIP sticker. (who is also certified by PSI for inspections & verified online). But I could pay for their shops sticker for a fill.

 

[boulderjohn]

Gotta love the games sometimes from local providers.......
On more than one occasion, I've had a tank fill refused because they didn't trust the other shop's VIP sticker. (who is also certified by PSI for inspections & verified online). But I could pay for their shops sticker for a fill.

A couple of years ago I took my tanks into a shop in Florida I had not used before. They looked at my sticker and asked who inspected it because they did not recognize it. they would have accepted any of the local shop's stickers with no problem, but this strange one...they didn't know. "WHo inspected this?" they asked, suspiciously.

""I did," I answered. I then explained that the sticker was from PSI/PCI, and the certifying inspector's number on it was mine. I then had to explain what PSI/PCI was.

 

[kelemvor]

This is where I have a real problem with the current diving/ teaching atmosphere. I’m really tired of hearing about “It’s the instructor not the agency” crap. AFAIK the instructor is a direct representative of the agency, therefore the instructor as the direct point of contact for the public, IS the agency.
If I was to take my car to a body shop and the shop had a good reputation, but hired a total hack to work on my vehicle and they F’d it all up, then at that point that technician directly represents the quality of that facility to the people who experience that individuals work. This type of thing will get them one hell of a bad review.
If it’s the instructors who are giving agencies bad names then they better get a handle on it quick like!

I completely agree with this. While you can have a bad apple, it's on the agency to police their people. If they do such a bad job that the agency gets a bad name then the agency has nobody to blame but its-self for not sussing out and dealing with the problem quicker.

From what I understand, most agencies depend pretty much exclusively on some third party "reporting" violations. Only then do they investigate and maybe do something about it. They need to be proactive. Especially the bigger behemoth agencies that could easily afford to do it.

 

[Wookie]

Only then do they investigate and maybe do something about it. They need to be proactive. Especially the bigger behemoth agencies that could easily afford to do it.

I guess I have to disagree here too. Yes, some people would jump up and say "I'll go with the best agency, best being proactive about quality instructors". But think, and think hard who the agency makes money off of. They make money with the ongoing costs of being a member, regardless of whether you're a member of a big or small agency. They make money from publishing and writing books. They make money printing certifications.

They do not make money calling themselves out for their crappy instructors. In fact, that would be detrimental to their business.

As always, follow the Money. PADI isn't worth $700M because they make the best instructors, but because they make the most....

 

[kelemvor]

I guess I have to disagree here too. Yes, some people would jump up and say "I'll go with the best agency, best being proactive about quality instructors". But think, and think hard who the agency makes money off of. They make money with the ongoing costs of being a member, regardless of whether you're a member of a big or small agency. They make money from publishing and writing books. They make money printing certifications.

They do not make money calling themselves out for their crappy instructors. In fact, that would be detrimental to their business.

As always, follow the Money. PADI isn't worth $700M because they make the best instructors, but because they make the most....

Fair enough, but most businesses at some point elect to have some sort of quality control. That quality control always costs money, sometimes lots. What they get with that money spent is reputation, and perhaps reduction in other costs (lawsuits etc). Clearly a 700M company has folks on staff who have done the math and decided their current quality control model is what's going to garner the most revenue in the long run. It still sucks.

 

[Wookie]

Fair enough, but most businesses at some point elect to have some sort of quality control. That quality control always costs money, sometimes lots. What they get with that money spent is reputation, and perhaps reduction in other costs (lawsuits etc). Clearly a 700M company has folks on staff who have done the math and decided their current quality control model is what's going to garner the most revenue in the long run. It still sucks.

Yes. And I am not here to poop on any particular agency. But that's why I'm not a member of some of them any more. I want to be held to a higher standard. And I hold my agency to one also.

 

[Storker]

I think dive boat captains are much more than taxi drivers,

What more should they be? The only thing I expect from a boat captain is to get me safely to the site, provide a site briefing and bring me back to shore. Of course, if I- or somebody else - mess up, it'd be nice if they were able to call 911/112 (or send out a pan-pan on channel 16).

 

[boulderjohn]

What more should they be? The only thing I expect from a boat captain is to get me safely to the site, provide a site briefing and bring me back to shore. Of course, if I- or somebody else - mess up, it'd be nice if they were able to call 911/112 (or send out a pan-pan on channel 16).

Lots of people say that, but in doing so they ignore the standard laws, rules, and regulations that govern those things. Just as one example, when Tina Watson died in Australia, the boat operator (Mike Ball) was extremely lucky to get off with a relatively small fine because they did not follow their own policy of requiring a checkout dive at the beginning of the trip. As another example, in Florida recently the boat owner and captain was heavily punished when a diver died in the water because they did not follow required procedures in crew training and dive supervision.

In the example most relevant to this thread, a boat captain in California let the dive club that had chartered the boat take the roll after every dive. A diver was left behind. Because of a grossly mismanaged legal defense, the captain was not found guilty of not calling the roll himself (as he should have been--the rules state the captain cannot relegate that duty to the customers). The two people in the dive club who screwed it up were justifiably held liable. More importantly, though, they were certified as DMs by PADI, and PADI was also found liable under the theory that the roll-callers were acting as agents of PADI, as if PADI were actually in charge of calling the roll. That is the reason all PADI waivers now clearly state that instructors and DMs are not PADI agents and are not acting under PADI's control. If the certifying agency were always considered to be liable for the screwups of DMs and instructors, all agencies would be out of business in no time.

 

[Wookie]

What more should they be? The only thing I expect from a boat captain is to get me safely to the site, provide a site briefing and bring me back to shore. Of course, if I- or somebody else - mess up, it'd be nice if they were able to call 911/112 (or send out a pan-pan on channel 16).

The coast guard (US, not Swedish) thinks that they should provide procedures covering the following:
Loading and stowing dive gear;
Loading passengers;
Transiting to dive site;
Dive pre-brief and dive planning;
Knowing dive site specific risks and hazards;
Pre-dive equipment checks;
Entering water;
Boarding vessel;
Accounting for all divers;
Departing dive site;
Returning to port;
Unloading passengers;
Unloading gear;
Duties and responsibilities of crew members; and
Accounting for the safe return of all divers and passengers

I tend to agree with them.

I consider it a part of acting like a professional instead of a typical Keys loser.

https://homeport.uscg.mil/Lists/Content/Attachments/1733/COMDT Advisory 01-2012 - Recommendations for Recreational Diving Operations Occurring from Commercial Passenger Vessels_2.pdf

 

[Storker]

The coast guard (US, not Swedish) thinks that they should provide procedures covering the following:
Loading and stowing dive gear;
Loading passengers;
Transiting to dive site;
Dive pre-brief and dive planning;
Knowing dive site specific risks and hazards;
Pre-dive equipment checks;
Entering water;
Boarding vessel;
Accounting for all divers;
Departing dive site;
Returning to port;
Unloading passengers;
Unloading gear;
Duties and responsibilities of crew members; and
Accounting for the safe return of all divers and passengers

I tend to agree with them.

I consider it a part of acting like a professional instead of a typical Keys loser.

https://homeport.uscg.mil/Lists/Content/Attachments/1733/COMDT Advisory 01-2012 - Recommendations for Recreational Diving Operations Occurring from Commercial Passenger Vessels_2.pdf

Except that I have no idea why you're mentioning the Swedish coast guard, to my (rather incompetent) mind, the stuff you're listing is pretty much covered in the short list I was giving. Or vice versa...