Diver Training, Has It Really Been Watered Down???

[boulderjohn]

"ReActivate" is a classic example of re-labelling and dumbing down the old Scuba Review so that PADI can earn additional fee income.

I am not clear on how Reactivate dumbs down the old scuba review. It looks to be more intensive to me.

 

[Umuntu]

You say this as if Scuba Review was free. What do you see as the content difference between the two classes?

I am not clear on how Reactivate dumbs down the old scuba review. It looks to be more intensive to me.

Whenever I took my kids on diving vacations they always got "Free" Scuba Reviews in the pool. We only paid for the dives.

1. PADI takes a fee on "ReActivate". Scuba Review had No PADI admin involvement. This in itself pushes the price up.

2. ReActivate does not need to cover all the skills covered in Scuba Review, but is left to Instructors discretion. Dumbing Down ?!

3. In many resort locations Scuba Review was a "Free" safety check prior to the first dive for all Scuba guests. As much for the resort's safety benefit as the guests. In some places it still is -- minus the sucker Re-Certified sticker.

4. When ReActivate began a few years ago, it was taught from Scuba Review materials. The only changes have been the PADI Fee, the sucker sticker, and to adjust the topics covered so they can be reduced at the instructors discretion. Oh, and I believe a DM could do a Scuba Review.

 

[TMHeimer]

I googled what the difference is between Scuba Review and Reactivate. I read one comparison offered by a shop which apparently teaches both. I see there are differences, but I would think for the vast majority these differences would be very minimal. There are (20?) skills. Not rocket science unless you got certified in 2000, did 3 dives, and want to start again in 2018. But, I'm certainly no expert, and this is only what one shop says.
I did not know that PADI got a fee for Reactivate and they did not for Review. Guess if I needed it I'd go with the Review.....

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

The dive planning, at least for PADI, has been greatly improved in the most recent version of the class. Gas planning is part of the academic material. Students plan and execute a "mini-dive" in the pool sessions. Dive #4 is now supposed to be planned and executed by student team, with no intervention by the instructor unless it becomes necessary. The instructor just observes.

This was not my experience at all when I was OW certified in December of 2016. Of course this could be chalked up to bad instruction (although I had 5 different instructors fro my OW classes) but we went over gas planning from the material in the book but we never planned a "mini-dive" in the pool nor did we plan any of our OW training dives. We did some of the dive flexible skills on dive 4 such as surface swim with compass, remove/replace scuba (surface) and CESA with the rest of the dive being just tooling around Woods Cove in SoCal. Although I just noticed my logbook shows we did UW compass navigation as signed off by my instructor but I know for a fact that never happened.

To elaborate on the 5 different instructors, I had two that did the classroom portions. Two classroom sessions with a new instructor each time. I had one for my CW dive(s) which was one day in the pool but a 9 hour day with me and 7 other students. Then I had one instructor for OW 1 &2 and a different one for OW 3&4.

 

[boulderjohn]

This was not my experience at all when I was OW certified in December of 2016. Of course this could be chalked up to bad instruction (although I had 5 different instructors fro my OW classes) but we went over gas planning from the material in the book but we never planned a "mini-dive" in the pool nor did we plan any of our OW training dives. We did some of the dive flexible skills on dive 4 such as surface swim with compass, remove/replace scuba (surface) and CESA with the rest of the dive being just tooling around Woods Cove in SoCal. Although I just noticed my logbook shows we did UW compass navigation as signed off by my instructor but I know for a fact that never happened.

To elaborate on the 5 different instructors, I had two that did the classroom portions. Two classroom sessions with a new instructor each time. I had one for my CW dive(s) which was one day in the pool but a 9 hour day with me and 7 other students. Then I had one instructor for OW 1 &2 and a different one for OW 3&4.

Your instruction violated standards. You can contact PADI to tell about it.

 

[mmerriman]

Whenever I took my kids on diving vacations they always got "Free" Scuba Reviews in the pool. We only paid for the dives.

1. PADI takes a fee on "ReActivate". Scuba Review had No PADI admin involvement. This in itself pushes the price up.

2. ReActivate does not need to cover all the skills covered in Scuba Review, but is left to Instructors discretion. Dumbing Down ?!

3. In many resort locations Scuba Review was a "Free" safety check prior to the first dive for all Scuba guests. As much for the resort's safety benefit as the guests. In some places it still is -- minus the sucker Re-Certified sticker.

4. When ReActivate began a few years ago, it was taught from Scuba Review materials. The only changes have been the PADI Fee, the sucker sticker, and to adjust the topics covered so they can be reduced at the instructors discretion. Oh, and I believe a DM could do a Scuba Review.

and a DM can do reactivate....

 

[TrimixToo]

Just to be more specific, by "gas planning" I mean knowing to a close approximation how long your gas will last at the planned depth before you splash. Perhaps this was added after my sons took OW, but it wasn't in their books or part of the classroom instruction back then as far as I can recall. "Swim upcurrent first," and "turn around at 1700 or so PSI" and "if you have to swim hard you'll use more air" were all mentioned, but not a "so many minutes, so many cubic feet, at this depth, figure out your consumption rate, and here's how that varies by workload" approach. Or, if it was, I was sleeping in the back of the room. (This is quite possible. I often brought work to do to things like that, when I had to be there but not pay attention...but it would have been a lengthy enough topic with enough questions that I think I'd have noticed were it covered.)

 

[boulderjohn]

Just to be more specific, by "gas planning" I mean knowing to a close approximation how long your gas will last at the planned depth before you splash. Perhaps this was added after my sons took OW, but it wasn't in their books or part of the classroom instruction back then as far as I can recall. "Swim upcurrent first," and "turn around at 1700 or so PSI" and "if you have to swim hard you'll use more air" were all mentioned, but not a "so many minutes, so many cubic feet, at this depth, figure out your consumption rate, and here's how that varies by workload" approach. Or, if it was, I was sleeping in the back of the room. (This is quite possible. I often brought work to do to things like that, when I had to be there but not pay attention...but it would have been a lengthy enough topic with enough questions that I think I'd have noticed were it covered.)

The course talk about turning points of dives, such as the rule of thirds, etc. It tells divers to calculate a gas reserve, subtract that from usable gas, and then make an appropriate calculation on what to do with the usable gas.

 

[TrimixToo]

The course talk about turning points of dives, such as the rule of thirds, etc. It tells divers to calculate a gas reserve, subtract that from usable gas, and then make an appropriate calculation on what to do with the usable gas.

That's an important extension to what there was, and I am very happy to learn this!

 

[JamesBon92007]

Whenever I took my kids on diving vacations they always got "Free" Scuba Reviews in the pool. We only paid for the dives.

3. In many resort locations Scuba Review was a "Free" safety check prior to the first dive for all Scuba guests. As much for the resort's safety benefit as the guests. In some places it still is -- minus the sucker Re-Certified sticker.
.

Could you give some examples of resorts that offer or require a "scuba review?" I've never come across such a thing unless someone has not been diving for over a year or two. If anyone asks at all they usually want to know when was the last time we went diving but thanks to ScubaBoard they sometimes already know before we get there

They are pretty much completely different. Some compass skills are repeated in the navigation dive, but that is all that comes to mind at the moment.

Do you know of anyone offers a course that encompasses both OW and AOW together? If I was just starting out and didn't have an experienced diver to teach me I would want to begin with the more advanced course.