Pony bottle, TSA and Delta

[DandyDon]

Eric asked what we can do in the future to avoid this and he said just cover the opening with clear tape. We had always used a tank plug that was recommend to us by our LDS.

I've flown my pony on many trips, domestic & international, since before there was a TSA rule, but there is one now and it says open. I'd never try a plug! Ok, I did consider them briefly, but rejected the idea.

Since the TSA wants the valve removed and clear tape over the tank opening - Are you going to install the valve yourself or have the tank cleaned and the valve installed? Is it worth is for a 13cf tank? Might be easier to rent a 40cf. Your thoughts?

The rule says open, so we are pushing it with tape. I always double back both ends to make it easy to remove. No, that doesn't pass US Viz rules, but the pony is for me - so if I trust it, cool.

The cap was screwed into the cylinder. This was what the owner of my LDS does

Never, not screwed in...!

I put mine on a 'snug' finger tight.

Yep, that's enough, but when I go to drain it - I have to have a wrench. The fill shack in Cozumel must tighten them.

Unless you're going to have it filled with EAN that is partial pressure blended (pure O2 added to tank first)

Never, ever! Mine has magic marker writing saying "Air only."

You were luckier than me. I had a 6cf stolen from my luggage on a United flight to Bon. At first I thought it was TSA but no slip and no record with TSA. Put a claim in with United and they paid me for the stolen tank. United was having an issue in Newark with thefts from check in luggage.

Strange. Who would think that a tiny pony would be thief bait. I hope you got a larger one.

FWIW visual inspection requirements vary from country to country and may well not be required at your destination

As in not required in Mexico or anywhere in the Caribbean?

Tangent--I've never had a lighter confiscated from my carry-on.

Rules for lighters have changed a few times since 2001, but I think the current rule is one per passenger - carry-on or pocket.

 

[uncfnp]

Tangent--I've never had a lighter confiscated from my carry-on. Once I had my supply of matches taken and the officer GAVE me a lighter as a replacement... This right after 9-11 in 2002, but it was in Canada, so not TSA.

The save a dive kit with the lighter was in checked.

 

[uncfnp]

As in not required in Mexico or anywhere in the Caribbean?

Obviously I am not an authority but my understanding is that most countries require some level of inspection and testing but exact requirements and time intervals are set by each country.

In the US annual inspections are not a law but an industry set standard. 5 year hydro’s are reguired.

The EU and UK require visual inspections evey 2.5 years and hydro every 5 years.

I pretty sure Australia has even stricter laws about hydros. Every year I think.

On a recent trip to Mexico filling my pony myself was going to be a bit of a logistic challenge so I contacted the shop ahead of time and asked if they needed the tank to have a current visual sticker. Their answer was no and no problem filling. I don’t know but my guess is that they would just take a quick peek before filling if they are concerned.

Of course what each country requires is one thing but shops can obviously impose strictor standards. and it seems the Carribean in general tends to adopt US customs.

 

[kelemvor]

Obviously I am not an authority but my understanding is that most countries require some level of inspection and testing but exact requirements and time intervals are set by each country.

In the US annual inspections are not a law but an industry set standard. 5 year hydro’s are reguired.

The EU and UK require visual inspections evey 2.5 years and hydro every 5 years.

I pretty sure Australia has even stricter laws about hydros. Every year I think.

On a recent trip to Mexico filling my pony myself was going to be a bit of a logistic challenge so I contacted the shop ahead of time and asked if they needed the tank to have a current visual sticker. There answer was no and no problem filling. I don’t know but my guess is that they would just take a quick pick before filling.

Of course what each country requires is one thing but shops can obviously impose strictor standards. and it seems the Carribean in general tends to adopt US customs.

I've seen several posts from people saying that wherever they live they only do hydro - no vis. There was even a recent DAN article that mentioned the lack of inspection requirements some places. In fact, I think the article was actually complaining that there was no inspection required at all in some countries (no hydro or vis).

I found the article.. maybe not a "DAN article" but a paid advertisement by PSI on DAN's site from the look of it. Not that I disagree with most of the article (except the expectation that someone outside the USA would care what the U.S. DOT rules are). Alert Diver | Are 6351-T6 Alloy Scuba Cylinders Safe to Use?

Safety requirements vary greatly by location, it seems. I think I heard in Europe, they don't use burst discs on scuba tanks. Kind of blew my mind when I heard about it, but I can't find a high number of articles about tank ruptures in that location so maybe they're on to something. Then there's the whole VIS thing, which I don't intend to start a debate about here - but the purpose in a VIS (safety precaution vs money making scheme) certainly has often been debated on scubaboard. I only mention the debate because it's a rule here and many people don't like the rule. It doesn't seem like a stretch for other locations to not have the same rule.

 

[Akimbo]

I think I heard in Europe, they don't use burst discs on scuba tanks. Kind of blew my mind when I heard about it, but...

Yes, I believe that is true and, IMHO, is a good idea for Scuba equipment. The risk of a blowout disk failure underwater is higher than an overpressure cylinder failure. It is probably a good idea for firefighter's SCBAs with filament wound cylinders though.

 

[Kharon]

We had always used a tank plug that was recommend to us by our LDS. Apparently this time it “freaked out” the TSA agent!

So I waited to post until the tank arrived which it did today. Boo TSA and kudos to Delta

Nope - kudos Delta Boo You. TSA is eminantly clear on how these bottles must be transported:

"Except for personal medical oxygen cylinders, you can only carry an EMPTY compressed gas cylinder onboard a plane. To be permitted (in either carry-on or checked baggage), it must be clearly visible to the TSA officer that the cylinder is empty. Personal oxygen is permitted if the regulatory valve has not been tampered with or removed.

Unless being used for personal medical oxygen, the gas cylinder regulator valve must be completely disconnected from the cylinder (in other words, the cylinder has an open end that allows the TSO to visually inspect the cylinder). TSOs will NOT remove the seal or regulator valve from the cylinder. If the gas cylinder is sealed (the regulator valve is still attached) and not required for personal medical oxygen, the gas cylinder is prohibited, regardless of the reading on the pressure gauge indicator."

 

[Kharon]

I've seen several posts from people saying that wherever they live they only do hydro - no vis. There was even a recent DAN article that mentioned the lack of inspection requirements some places.

Actually, there is no (govermental) regulation for visual inspection in the US. It is entirely the dive industry that "requires" it. Their only way to force the inspection schedule is that you can't get a fill without it.

 

[uncfnp]

Nope - kudos Delta Boo You. TSA is eminantly clear on how these bottles must be transported:

"Except for personal medical oxygen cylinders, you can only carry an EMPTY compressed gas cylinder onboard a plane. To be permitted (in either carry-on or checked baggage), it must be clearly visible to the TSA officer that the cylinder is empty. Personal oxygen is permitted if the regulatory valve has not been tampered with or removed.

Unless being used for personal medical oxygen, the gas cylinder regulator valve must be completely disconnected from the cylinder (in other words, the cylinder has an open end that allows the TSO to visually inspect the cylinder). TSOs will NOT remove the seal or regulator valve from the cylinder. If the gas cylinder is sealed (the regulator valve is still attached) and not required for personal medical oxygen, the gas cylinder is prohibited, regardless of the reading on the pressure gauge indicator."

I am not going to argue this point since obviously TSA can interpret the regulations in any number of ways. By your own words the tape recommended by Delta would cause an equal reaction my TSA. My valve was completely disconnected, the tank was not sealed and the tank was available for inspection. Numerous other agents had no issue with this interpretation on previous trips because my bags show evidence of search on at least 90% of my trips.

Like every other law and regulation it is open for interpretation. My plans for the future is to just leave the tank completely open so that the is no need for interpretation of the law, at least from that aspect.

 

[Kharon]

I am not going to argue this point since obviously TSA can interpret the regulations in any number of ways. By your own words the tape recommended by Delta would cause an equal reaction my TSA. My valve was completely disconnected, the tank was not sealed and the tank was available for inspection. Numerous other agents had no issue with this interpretation on previous trips because my bags show evidence of search on at least 90% of my trips.

Like every other law and regulation it is open for interpretation. My plans for the future is to just leave it completely open so that the is no need for interpretation of the law, at least from that aspect.

Nope - you had a plug in it. I don't fault the agent for not wanting to open it. Clear tape allows them to see inside. A plug does not. For all the agent knew the bottle could have been full of anthrax.

 

[uncfnp]

Nope - you had a plug in it. I don't fault the agent for not wanting to open it. Clear tape allows them to see inside. A plug does not. For all the agent knew the bottle could have been full of anthrax.

Are you able to see gas?