Why no redundancy in mainstream rec scuba?

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reefrat

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I am not sure that this is the right place to post this discussion, so moderators please move it if there is somewhere more appropriate.

Recently I was geared up for a single 80 c/ft OC air dive that we planned would be a max depth of 110 ft on a deeper wall off South Caicos TCI, there is no dive op there and for us this was an exploratory trip.
While waiting to jump one of the other divers looks at me and says “why do you always wear all that stuff”?, the rest all had a bit of a chuckle and rolled eyes because they are all using the standard bare minimum scuba gear typical of rec divers everywhere.
The extra “stuff” he was talking about was a a pocket containing a spare mask, a compass, an SMB/spool and a pony- all neatly stowed on my BP harness with no danglies. This is all equipment that I regard as essential redundancy on anything but the most casual/ shallow dive and have had occasions over the last 20 years to require the use of all of it.
In my opinion the redundant equipment I carry (mask, pony/bail-out or spare-air) should be essential basic scuba kit and taught as a minimum requirement all recreational SCUBA. I suspect the reason it isn’t is purely because the extra few hundred dollars expense and maybe one day of training would cost the agencies some basic OW customers.

It really seems to me that the training agencies, at the OW level, really do not take scuba safety seriously enough, or maybe there is just a prevailing ignorance in mainstream rec diving regarding the realities of using life support equipment 100 ft underwater with minimal training and no effective redundancy in the event that ANY primary equipment fails.
As someone once said “Diving is safe, just as long as you remember that it is dangerous”!
 
You should check out the recent thread I started, asking if others actually saw people using ponies. It went more than 50 pages

The responses ranged from someone who said he'd never dive with someone who carried a pony to those who of us who almost always carry them.
 
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The simple answer is that the majority of dives around the world do not need redundant equipment, in basic training you are taught that your buddy is a redundant air source and 99% of divers are happy with that situation. A spare mask (for example) is a good idea if you are likely to lose the mask you are wearing, I have never done so in 20 years and a couple of thousand dives. Without a decompression obligation it is simple enough to surface without a mask. There really is no need to carry one as a "basic" item of equipment. (Of course there is no harm in it either for those that wish to carry one).

The debate about pony tanks is mature enough that anyone that has been diving a while or on Scubaboard a while is familiar with it. No need to reproduce it yet again - your buddy is your redundant source and if you don't trust them then carry your own. This results in the long (and tiresome) argument about buddy skills. However, to answer your specific question it is not taught by the training organisations because they teach you to use your buddy.

So no, not "essential basic kit" at all.
 
It really seems to me that the training agencies, at the OW level, really do not take scuba safety seriously enough, or maybe there is just a prevailing ignorance in mainstream rec diving regarding the realities of using life support equipment 100 ft underwater with minimal training and no effective redundancy in the event that ANY primary equipment fails.
Recreational Scuba relies on the Buddy for any redundancy. They are your extra mask, your extra fins, your pony bottle and even your extra brain. What? You don't carry extra fins too??? I have to ask if you carried a snorkel or a BFK as well?

When I first learned to dive, I didn't even have an SPG, much less scads of extra air. Just a little rod to pull when that first pucker occurred. I tried to surface before I got to the second pucker. I only had one second stage, no depth gauge, save a red ribbon, and rarely kept close to my buddy. Somehow I barely escaped those years of diving without a serious injury. Boy were they fun.

I've seen the agencies change over the years to become safer. Their approach to safety seems to be working for those who care to dive the system. I don't think I care for your "OSHA Approach" to diving in OW. An extra mask? Rly? I don't take that on a technical dive. I don't carry a BFK or a snorkel either for the very same reasons. Less is almost always best.
 
What? You don't carry extra fins too???

Well, this summer I did many dives without even principal fins. :cool:


I do consider redundant air to be kinda vital though. I let people dive without it, but strongly encourage people diving with me to be fully redundant on that side, even if I don't consider myself a (too) bad buddy.
 
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Aren't most deaths in scuba diving caused by an out of air situation ?
 
The real world statistics of scuba diving disagree with you.
I've seen people get in trouble for not having enough air (as a matter of fact, there's been a med evac yesterday nearby due to that). I've not heard many people getting in trouble for having a Y or H-valve or twins. Even Y/H-valves can fail (seen a ruptured tank neck o-ring posted online last week).
 
Aren't most deaths in scuba diving caused by an out of air situation ?

I expect most are caused by some type of medical event which happens to occur during a dive.
 
I've seen people get in trouble for not having enough air
It's my opinion that most issues with air are a function of not planning, not following the plan and/or not paying attention. This is why I hate the CESA. You have to have run out of air and run out of buddy at the same time. How does a sane person let this happen? Since I started diving with an SPG, I have never, ever run out of air. Oh, I've had to share my air on a number of occasions. If you can't or won't pay attention before and during the dive, then stay on the boat. Go do something where your inability to plan and follow the plan won't negatively impact others. Harsh? Not as harsh as running out of air.
 

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