Do you actually see people diving with pony bottles?

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I agree with everything except the buddy separation. Your gear and gas supply on your back remains the same whether you're near another diver or diving solo. Not paying attention to your spg and panic is the leading initial cause of diving fatalities. Following the skills you were taught in your OW class will keep you alive.

Perhaps I should have said "one of the leading triggers" rather than "one of the leading causes". There's a fancy graph I've shared before from DAN, I think, about buddy separation. If I can find it I'll share it again.
 
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Interesting comment from Fling Charters
"We do allow pony tanks up to 30cf. Pony tanks are for emergency use only and will not be refilled without the permission of the Captain."

Apparently some divers there had been using the pony bottle as an air-tank extension in the past & the operator put a stop on this bad practice.

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Why is that a bad practice? Seriously, I'm confused. I'm a big guy (6'5" / 260) and a relatively new diver. I am an air hog. When I dive at home I use a steel 133. My wife uses a steel 80 and we start and finish at about the same psi. When on vacation I usually only have access to Al80's. That means that I'm the first one out of air. I have seen on other threads 'experienced' divers complaining about having to call a dive early because someone is low on air. Isn't this an appropriate solution.

I have read through this post and have heard 'experienced' divers criticizing but know one actually explains why it is bad.
 
Do you actually see people diving with pony bottles?

Yep



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There are many people who do not dive solo but who use a pony cylinder for other reasons, such as:

On a deep, coldwater dive, a pony cylinder is useful for dealing with freeflow due to freezup.

I haven't been trained for deep, coldwater dives, so I don't know how to handle the first point. To me, that's a big-boy dive. I am guessing that double tanks would make more sense to me than a pony. Besides, with a drysuit, the weight of steel doubles is going to be useful.

Used properly, a pony dive can improve safety on buddy dives. Buddy separation is a factor in many accidents, and is not a problem unique to "insta-buddies." There are also accidents where both divers in a buddy pair end up OOA.

Used properly, the buddy system can improve safety on buddy dives. The buddy system is what all major agencies teach. As I queried in an earlier post, is the apparent increase in people using ponies really a symptom of the failure to teach proper buddy diving? Sure, there are all kinds of things that can happen, but with proper buddy procedures, on a recreational dive, the odds of not being able to surface safely are very low. There are rec diving protocols for what to do when buddies lose each other, etc., like look around for a minute and then surface.

I feel like I'm being backed into attacking ponies here, and that was not my original intent. Not at all. I completely agree with those who say ponies are a tool that can be employed. But reading some of these comments, it's as though they are saying that single-tank minimalist diving is inadequate. That's crazy to me. Single tank diving is what attracts millions to this sport. They don't all need ponies. They MAY need better buddy training.

With careful gas planning, a pony cylinder can be used to extend the duration of a dive, either by reducing the reserves required in the primary cylinder, or by intentional planned use of the gas in the pony cylinder at some point in the dive.

I disagree with the last part of that sentence. I have not been trained in using a pony or read up on it, and my thoughts are just off the cuff, but it seems to me that a pony should not be considered as usable gas.

Doubles and pony cylinders are tools for different jobs, although there is some overlap.

So how does one know when to employ which? Switching back and forth between using doubles on this dive and a pony on that dive because (hypothetically) the dives I like to do straddle some threshold doesn't sit well with me. I like consistency. If I'm on the threshold of needing more gas or redundancy, my thinking is to go the conservative route on all those dives and take the doubles, even if it's overkill for some of the dives.
 
I'd like to know where you got that statistic from because although the statics are somewhat hazy (because 86% of fatalities occur when the diver is alone), I thought that the number one cause is believed to be was poor fitness leading to cardiac arrest.
Drowning is the leading cause of death in dive fatalities. The best way to avoid drowning is to not panic nor run out of air. The best way to avoid running out of air is to watch your spg, not rely on a buddy's gas or a pony bottle. Equipment failure is rare. Divers running low on air at depth is unfortunately not as rare. The simplest solution is usually the best.
 
I haven't been trained for deep, coldwater dives, so I don't know how to handle the first point. To me, that's a big-boy dive. I am guessing that double tanks would make more sense to me than a pony. Besides, with a drysuit, the weight of steel doubles is going to be useful.

Not all deep, coldwater dives are in drysuits.

There are rec diving protocols for what to do when buddies lose each other, etc., like look around for a minute and then surface.

The problem with this is that it is a wide window. The amount of time required to identify the absence of a buddy, plus the one minute, plus the time to ascend, allows a lot to go wrong. Remember that it's not just OOA due to failure to monitor the gas supply that we're concerned with, it's things like 1st stage failure.

But reading some of these comments, it's as though they are saying that single-tank minimalist diving is inadequate. That's crazy to me. Single tank diving is what attracts millions to this sport. They don't all need ponies. They MAY need better buddy training.

I make lots of dives without redundant air, some of them because I have a buddy who I trust. It really depends on the diving you do. Some of the best, most enjoyable diving in the world is in an environment where redundant air is not necessary because buddy diving works out so well. There are other dives where I prefer a pony because of a combination of depth, visibility, and who I'm diving with. It depends.

I disagree with the last part of that sentence ["intentional planned use of the gas in the pony cylinder at some point in the dive."]. I have not been trained in using a pony or read up on it, and my thoughts are just off the cuff, but it seems to me that a pony should not be considered as usable gas.

Nomenclature:

Pony - small cylinder used in addition to primary gas supply regardless of purpose
Bailout - gas reserved for emergency purposes
Stage - cylinder other than the primary one that is intended to be used for a particular stage of the dive

The key thing here is that a pony is just a gas cylinder and its intended use is one you can define during gas planning. If you want to use a pony exclusively for bailout, great. Many liveaboards and charters only allow that type of use. If you want to use it as a stage, there's nothing wrong with that, but you have to be mindful of your dive planning. You don't need to be a technical diver to use a stage as long as the dive is staying within recreational limits and you're not switching gases during the dive (e.g. from air to nitrox). There isn't much difference planning wise between diving an AL80 with an AL40 pony to extend the dive time and diving a single HP120. Again the thing here is that you have to plan and you have to know what you're doing. If your diving is going in this direction, run your experiments in a benign environment and seek mentorship if you need it.

So how does one know when to employ which? Switching back and forth between using doubles on this dive and a pony on that dive because (hypothetically) the dives I like to do straddle some threshold doesn't sit well with me. I like consistency. If I'm on the threshold of needing more gas or redundancy, my thinking is to go the conservative route on all those dives and take the doubles, even if it's overkill for some of the dives.

If you can dive doubles on all your dives and you want to, great.

Echoing your earlier comments, I will say that single-tank minimalist diving is fun and is usually why people decide to start diving. Most of my dives are shallow, and I don't carry redundant air.

When I feel that I need redundant air for a dive, I will usually use doubles now unless there's a reason I can't. Most often my reason for leaving doubles at home is air travel.
 
Echoing your earlier comments, I will say that single-tank minimalist diving is fun and is usually why people decide to start diving. Most of my dives are shallow, and I don't carry redundant air.

Minimalist diving means different things to different people ...

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.... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
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