Yelled at for MOF

[lowflyer]

In the PADI Rescue Diver manual that I have, on page 50, there are listed six "signs and behaviors" that may indicate that a diver has a problem. Removing gear, including mask, is the fourth indicator mentioned, not even the first.

To jump to the conclusion that a diver is in distress based solely on MOF is ridiculous. The instructor in this case was maybe showing off to his students, demonstrating his lack of knowledge about the real signs of a distressed diver, fluffing up his ego by being authoritarian, whatever. His behavior was asinine, IMO. I know that in the classes I assist as a DM we discourage MOF because it might lead to loss of the mask. We mention that MOF may be a distress sign if accompanied by other stress indicators.

 

[Pinecube]

Should have disconnected your bcd's inflator hose (is yours at your waist?) and started thrashing around. It'd give the instructor the opportunity to show his students how to handle a panicked sidemount diver who doesnt' have a tank on his back to grab & hide behind.

 

[Bob DBF]

If I see a diver waving their arms, shouting, looking like they are struggling to maintain buoyancy or a combo of them, I might think they are in distress

If you think that someone drowning will be wavering their arms and shouting, you should read in A&I about those that have come to the surface, just to slip under again. If I find it I'll put it up, there is a thread on the board about how drowning does not look like what one would expect.

The only "old school" storyline I thought he perpetuated was pointing the SPG front away from your face when pressurizing the system. No idea if that is an SSI requirement or just old habit.

This is the issue with training by catch phrase. The reason this started was the quality of gear back in the day. Occasionally an SPG face would separate and go flying across the room, if you were looking at it...

Now, the gear is better and I have not seen a problem since, excluding vintage gear I play with, however it is safer not to have an SPG, or anything with high pressure gas in your face when turning it on in case anything goes wrong. By using a catch phrase an instructor can remind a student of the proper answer to a question on the final, but does nothing to make him a more knowledgable diver.


Bob

Found it!

Drowning Doesn't Look Like Drowning

 

[tbone1004]

And this is not?

they know the rules prior to being subject to them though. They do get one freebee, but they do know the rules and they don't get yelled at. Public shaming of college students in front of their peers is a brilliantly effecting. Out of the 100ish students we go through each year, we average one serenade per semester.
Only two masks have been thrown into Fantasy Lake since I've been with the program which is going on a decade.

As said above though, the real driver for them to do it is to make sure that they are able to follow simple directions and get them into good habits to prove that they are thinking clearly. MOF for us is a REALLY fast indicator that a student is getting overwhelmed with something because it is emphasized from day 1 and is a super fast indicator to us that something between their ears is starting to break down and we need to either keep pushing them harder until they break *leadership level, guys going into BUDS, etc.* then rebuild them back up.

If it's a new student or a dive shop kid that we inherited for scientific diving, it is what tells us that we are moving too hard/fast as instructors and need to step back and patch the foundation a bit.

@txgoose the spg away is real. I've seen the faces pop out of the plastic gauges before... Probably not something I'd worry about on my personal gauges, but on any rental regs they get faced down on the deck when pressurizing as I've seen a couple blow several feet from where the SPG was and seen one shatter on the way out.

 

[Neilwood]

If you think that someone drowning will be wavering their arms and shouting, you should read in A&I about those that have come to the surface, just to slip under again. If I find it I'll put it up, there is a thread on the board about how drowning does not look like what one would expect.

This is the issue with training by catch phrase. The reason this started was the quality of gear back in the day. Occasionally an SPG face would separate and go flying across the room, if you were looking at it...

Now, the gear is better and I have not seen a problem since, excluding vintage gear I play with, however it is safer not to have an SPG, or anything with high pressure gas in your face when turning it on in case anything goes wrong. By using a catch phrase an instructor can remind a student of the proper answer to a question on the final, but does nothing to make him a more knowledgable diver.

Bob

Found it!

Drowning Doesn't Look Like Drowning

I know drowning doesn't look like the classic thrashing of limbs that it is portrayed as on TV, films etc.

What I posted was "If I see a diver waving their arms, shouting, looking like they are struggling to maintain buoyancy or a combo of them, I might think they are in distress". If I see someone "lifeless" on the surface I will take it as possible drowning.

If however I see someone with MOF or elsewhere chatting away to their buddy about the dive/football/etc with no signs of agitation at all from either them or their buddy I will leave them well alone.

 

[rhwestfall]

With bacon, and a couple other delicacies, that can be stretched to the 5 minute rule, as long as you do not have a dog...

 

[lowviz]

I've had fun watching this thread and more than enough time to think about how I would respond. What a luxury, there is a new arrow in my quiver.

Leave the MOF and signal a BIG two-handed 'OK' sign. Just stare at him.

Now the prig has an impossible choice that his training cannot resolve.

 

[rek_diver]

If however I see someone with MOF or elsewhere chatting away to their buddy about the dive/football/etc with no signs of agitation at all from either them or their buddy I will leave them well alone.

Given the state of the NFL nowadays and several teams in particular, it's difficult if not impossible to discuss football without being agitated.

 

[txgoose]

@txgoose the spg away is real. I've seen the faces pop out of the plastic gauges before... Probably not something I'd worry about on my personal gauges, but on any rental regs they get faced down on the deck when pressurizing as I've seen a couple blow several feet from where the SPG was and seen one shatter on the way out.

Vintage gear, I wouldn't disagree.
Except that the pressure relief valve is built into the back of every SPG I have seen in my short scuba career using new-ish rental gear. As an engineer with no dive experience I knew that the little hole in the back of the console was there to either let something in or out. So now if you point the face of the SPG away from you, you have pointed the part designed to break, right at yourself. Do I think equipment can break? Yes. Do I want to point the part that is actually designed to break towards my body or my face? Nope.

If a quasi modern SPG is blowing their faces off instead of blowing the over-pressure relief, a lawyer with a modicum of skill could retire very quickly.

I also had this question pop into my head while on the dive boat in PCB. How in hades does anyone pressurize anything without somebody pointing something at someone?

 

[tbone1004]

Vintage gear, I wouldn't disagree.
Except that the pressure relief valve is built into the back of every SPG I have seen in my short scuba career using new-ish rental gear. As an engineer with no dive experience I knew that the little hole in the back of the console was there to either let something in or out. So now if you point the face of the SPG away from you, you have pointed the part designed to break, right at yourself. Do I think equipment can break? Yes. Do I want to point the part that is actually designed to break towards my body or my face? Nope.

If a quasi modern SPG is blowing their faces off instead of blowing the over-pressure relief, a lawyer with a modicum of skill could retire very quickly.

I also had this question pop into my head while on the dive boat in PCB. How in hades does anyone pressurize anything without somebody pointing something at someone?

The ones that I have seen blow the faces off had damaged faceplates from banging around on something and it blew before the relief valve did. Arguably the gauge should have probably been retired before then, but it still happened. Modern plastic gauges, Suunto branded IIRC and looked to be 10-15yrs old based on age of the regulators