Why dive in a quarry? Should you log them

[Joneill]

Quarry dives are fine for training. But your only qualified within the limitations of your training. So if you did your courses in a quarry you should get extra training before jumping into the ocean. People don't but ideally they should. They are not trained to dive in the sea.

So, if you got certified in a quarry, you can only dive in a quarry??? Lol... I did most of my open water certification dives in the ocean - but in a sheltered, shallow (40 ft bottom) cove inside of the reef - so can I only dive in a sheltered, shallow ocean bay inside of the reef? I did Peak Performance Buoyancy via a combo of pool sessions and quarry dives - so can I only use that knowledge/experience to have good buoyancy in pools and quarries?

Beyond buoyancy/weighting differences in fresh versus salt water, exactly what extra training beyond jumping in and doing a dive in the ocean would prepare one to dive in the ocean versus a quarry? To me, training provides you the basic fundamantals you need to dive safely and knowledgeably. Beyond that, it is largely the experience gained by frequency of diving and gradually introducing diving in progressively more challenging conditions that develops you as a diver.

 

[HantsDiver]

So, if you got certified in a quarry, you can only dive in a quarry??? Lol... I did most of my open water certification dives in the ocean - but in a sheltered, shallow (40 ft bottom) cove inside of the reef - so can I only dive in a sheltered, shallow ocean bay inside of the reef? I did Peak Performance Buoyancy via a combo of pool sessions and quarry dives - so can I only use that knowledge/experience to have good buoyancy in pools and quarries?

Beyond buoyancy/weighting differences in fresh versus salt water, exactly what extra training beyond jumping in and doing a dive in the ocean would prepare one to dive in the ocean versus a quarry? To me, training provides you the basic fundamantals you need to dive safely and knowledgeably. Beyond that, it is largely the experience gained by frequency of diving and gradually introducing diving in progressively more challenging conditions that develops you as a diver.

If I had trained you in those conditions I'd tell you that you were not qualified to dive in conditions which are more challenging than that.

If you chose to go and do so then you are diving outside the scope of your training. And I'm absolved from responsibility.

So to clarify if I train someone in a quarry I'll tell them they have no place in the ocean until they have got some training. In my personal experience of diving in the UK the sea is a different beast to quarries and can catch out even competent and experienced divers.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . To me, training provides you the basic fundamantals you need to dive safely and knowledgeably. Beyond that, it is largely the experience gained by frequency of diving and gradually introducing diving in progressively more challenging conditions that develops you as a diver.

I think that's the key. It is prudent to dive within the limits of one's training and experience. Since training occurs in conditions that aren't supposed to be too challenging for that level of training, to gain experience one can progressively push one's limits beyond what he was comfortable with during training. At some point, one may approach the limits of his training, and at that point he should consider additional training. And the cycle may begin again.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . In my personal experience of diving in the UK the sea is a different beast to quarries and can catch out even competent and experienced divers.

Okay, that makes sense. It sounds like you're saying that from a quarry to UK seas is inherently not the kind of progressive or incremental step some of us have in mind but rather a big leap, such that some sort of additional training would be prudent. That sounds like a reasonable opinion to me. However, from training in a quarry to one's first dives in calm Caribbean waters is very common around here.

 

[Joneill]

If I had trained you in those conditions I'd tell you that you were not qualified to dive in conditions which are more challenging than that.

If you chose to go and do so then you are diving outside the scope of your training. And I'm absolved from responsibility.

So to clarify if I train someone in a quarry I'll tell them they have no place in the ocean until they have got some training. In my personal experience of diving in the UK the sea is a different beast to quarries and can catch out even competent and experienced divers.

Well, I'm glad you didn't train me then...

I don't understand your approach? According to your view, if I get certified and the water is 60F, flat seas, no current and 100 viz, then that is all I can dive in... So if the next day, the water temp 64F, there are 3' swells, light current and 50' visibility, I can't dive as I need more training?

Beyond jumping in and diving (with a buddy or DM) to get experience diving in different conditions, EXACTLY what addtional training do you propose I take? Are you suggesting one retakes OW/AOW certification everytime the conditions are different from what they trained under? That would seem quite silly - but would be a real boom for business for Training Agencies and Instructors...

Sorry - but, for the most part, I fail to see how the majority of OW skills need to be retrained on in different conditions:

Open Water Scuba Diving Course Skills

- it's the application of those skills in dfferent conditions though actual experience that is required for how most extend their diving skills - not more formal retraining (obviously Tech, wreck, cave, etc, requires significant additional training - but that is not what we are discussing).

 

[Joneill]

I think that's the key. It is prudent to dive within the limits of one's training and experience. Since training occurs in conditions that aren't supposed to be too challenging for that level of training, to gain experience one can progressively push one's limits beyond what he was comfortable with during training. At some point, one may approach the limits of his training, and at that point he should consider additional training. And the cycle may begin again.

Exactly - as an example, I was scheduled to do a 2 tank boat dive in Aruba the day after my OW cert was completed. When we got to the dive site, the wind was howling and there were 4- 6 foot swells, a very strong current.and mediocre visibility. I opted to sit out the dives as I was not comfortable with the conditions and did not have a known, trusted buddy to dive with (so DM with the group or not, I'd pretty much be on my own if things went sour).

I don't feel I needed more training to dive that day - I just needed more experience diving in less challenging conditions before I was ready to try the conditions presented that day. I have subsequently dived in more challenging conditions than that day without taking addtional training as I have accumulated enough experience in different conditions to better understand my skills/limitations and comfort level.

 

[HantsDiver]

I don't understand your approach? According to your view, if I get certified and the water is 60F, flat seas, no current and 100 viz, then that is all I can dive in... So if the next day, the water temp 64F, there are 3' swells, light current and 50" visibility, I can't dive as I need more training?

Beyond jumping in and diving (with a buddy or DM) to get experience diving in those different conditions, EXACTLY what addtional training do you propose I take? Are you suggesting one retakes OW/AOW certification everytime the conditions are different from what they trained under? That would seem quite silly - but would be a real boom for business for Training Agencies and Instructors...

No. My view is not that you cannot dive. My view is that if you dive in conditions which are outside the scope of your training and you go on to get hurt or worst, and I am challenged about your competency I'll state that you were not trained for those conditions and that was explained to you.

Jumping in with an experienced buddy or a DM would be a good idea. It would give you the ability to gain some competency. However, at this point you are outside the scope of my training and I'm not responsible for you.

It's a simple concept really. You are certified to dive within the scope of your training and experience. If you have never dived in the ocean with my I am not responsible if you then go into the ocean and kill yourself. In warm tropical waters that isn't usually an issue. UK coast diving... different story.

 

[Joneill]

No. My view is not that you cannot dive. My view is that if you dive in conditions which are outside the scope of your training and you go on to get hurt or worst, and I am challenged about your competency I'll state that you were not trained for those conditions and that was explained to you.

Jumping in with an experienced buddy or a DM would be a good idea. It would give you the ability to gain some competency. However, at this point you are outside the scope of my training and I'm not responsible for you.

It's a simple concept really. You are certified to dive within the scope of your training and experience. If you have never dived in the ocean with my I am not responsible if you then go into the ocean and kill yourself. In warm tropical waters that isn't usually an issue. UK coast diving... different story.

Fair enough - so, it is really about your concerns for personal liability as an instructor and not training for every forseeable condition before diving (which is impossible). You had seemed to be saying that you could not get experience in different conditions without first training in those conditons which would present a chicken/egg conundrum.

 

[rhwestfall]

trained and certified in a cold, low-visibility quarry:

and was so out of place in the ocean on her first dive(s)..... LMAO....

 

[diver0008]

would you mind developing this thought a bit more? Please understand, I am not taking issue with, or exception to, the thought. Rather, I am particularly interested as an Instructor in better understanding the thinking. Perhaps, you could also share some background on the environment in which you completed you OW training. Thanks.

I just don't. I see it as training. Like training for a triathlon is not actually doing one. It's not complicated. To me.

I did my OW on Grand Cayman.