Ops requiring AOW certs?

[Kevo88]

I feel like AOW is a misnomer and a bit of a false sense of security when used as admission to a boat. I have under 20 dives, and I'm signed up to get my AOW this month. I think a better name would be ow 2, because that's basically what I'm treating it as. I felt like my ow instruction was just enough information to be dangerous, and AOW and nitrox will give me a little bit more towards having a decent general set of basic skills to start to be competent. I'd never consider it a replacement for experience and realize I'll still be very limited in my capabilities.

If a dive up wants to require advanced certs, I can completely understand. But why not require ones that actually have a bit more bearing to them? One of my bucket list dives that I want to do is to get over to Washington and dive the flooded missle silos. The op that runs that requires a minimum of full deep cert, full night cert, and proof of logged hours. That makes sense to me because all aow would tell them is that I've gone past 60' once and I may have dive in the dark if I chose to do that dive.

 

[Doby45]

AOW is for the most part a placebo for the charters and insurance.

There was a poster here just this week with <20 dives that had their AOW certification.

I agree that with so few dives under your belt you are FAR from Advanced and it is no different than people with 50 dives and "Master Scuba Diver". BUT, the "business" of scuba loves to provide labels for supposed experience.

It is easy for me, when I am vacationing and dealing with a charter I always carry my Advanced and Nitrox cards. When I am in Cave Country I carry my Intro card and thats about it. When I was in St. Martin the dive shop asked for my highest cert to rent tanks and when I said intro Cave they looked at me like I had a third eye, so I told them Advanced and in their mind I was then "good to go".

 

[_Ralph]

I've never been asked or had to provide a certification card for anything I've done (so far) diving, fills, gear ... although regarding the few posts about a Trimix card and the shop wanting a Nitrox card and Overhead instead of AOW made me chuckle at an experience I had earlier this year .....

I was at a LDS for one of their 'check us out and our year ahead' nights (they had free pizza and beverages.... ) Everyone (regular diving folk like me) afterwards during the social part was 'are you a DM/Instructor', to which the shop manager quickly jutted in, "He's an OW diver that does 200ft trimix dives" ... It was pretty funny!



_R

 

[drbill]

My original cert in the 60s was from Los Angeles County. It actually covered much of what is in the current OW-AOW-Rescue cert sequence and allowed me to dive to 130 fsw. Despite that many instructors (mostly PADI) that I've encountered on my global dive trips had no understanding of that and made me do check-out dives even though I'd been diving longer than they had been alive. That finally ended when an instructor in Cairns not only recognized my LAC c-card but said it was a museum piece. He gave me a PADI AOW card (with proper instruction) for the price of the materials.

Current OW certs from most agencies are IMHO pretty minimal. I think it is wise for a dive operator to require an AOW cert, especially if it helps limit liability.

 

[Aviyes]

Being a poster with <20 dives and my AOW. Even I think it should be called something like Adventure OW. It felt more like an introduction cert to other aspects of diving with the additional steps/concerns from a knowledge aspect when doing deep/night dives. The deep dive was more to check a box as we just barely went below 60 ft and I didn't feel any of the narcosis effects. The abbreviated PPB was about the only useful skill. Most of the dives felt more like do a quick skill drill on the subject and then go enjoy the dive.

 

[Altamira]

No you probably did not learn anything but you have the card and the card is the get out of jail pass for operators. It goes along with the waiver. Face it as liability goes all else being equal which has the higher risk to the business OW's or AOW's. Right or wrong it is like saying which has more risk on the highway a 16 yo or a 40 yo. Statistically the older is the safer ,less risk driver.. there are I am sure those that have OW's that can dive circles around some DM's. those situations always exist. however the fundamental of the one with the most training is the lower risk diver.

In general, I agree with your comments. However, your statement about "...the fundamental of the one with the most training is the lower risk diver" overlooks the factor of experience. Yes, additional academic and hands-on-training (such as AOW) are important factors, but there are other, equally valid and important training events that are gained from long term experience outside of formal training programs. I would submit that the low experienced, newly minted AOW, Rescue, or even DM are no less at risk than a mature, experienced, current, and competent OW diver. I know it is purely anecdotal, but some of the dumbest things I have seen underwater were done by divers with advanced certs. Of course, this is just my opinion formed by my experiences.

 

[topher10]

It makes complete sense for a dive operation to require some type of advanced certification/experience for a diver doing advanced dives. The issue is that there is no consensus for what constitutes an advanced dive, and even less consensus for what constitutes an advanced certification. On Scubaboard is it pretty clear that AOW does not equal advanced diver, so that is the ultimate issue. But there isn't any other straightforward metric that a dive op can use to evaluate an unknown diver, so they do the best they can with a combination of AOW, dive logs and personal experience.

From the outside it looks like the tech and especially cave world has a more clearly defined progression. I think it would be nice if in the rec world there was actually a more rigorous course that defined 'advanced', but perhaps there is no real need for it in the long run.

 

[Freewillow]

Most liveboard that I have been on , mainly Egypt/Maldives/phlippines and Indonesia, require some sort of advanced level AND a minimum of 50 dives. When I remember some of the dives, I consider this a minimum requirement .

 

[Lorenzoid]

FWIW, at least a few of the dive ops I've dived with in FL say AOW is necessary for the deeper wrecks OR you have to pay a DM to accompany you.

Just a couple of the disclaimers on various Keys dive ops' sites:

All wreck dives require an Advanced Open Water certification or your log book showing 3 dives below 80′ in the last 6 months. If you do not have either of the above then you will have to pay for a DM or Instructor to accompany you on the dive.

The depth of the Adolphus Busch wreck requires Advanced Open Water (AOW) certification or higher. Open Water Divers desiring to dive on the Adolphus Busch must be accompanied by a guide.

Requiring something like "3 dives below 80' in the last 6 months" makes sense to me, but accepting an AOW card as an alternative to actual dive experience does not make sense to me.

As a practical matter, I have no objection to hiring a guide in a place I'm not familiar with. They are usually helpful in one way or another. If you're on a wreck, they can help you plan a good route and point out highlights. Generally money well spent.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Being a poster with <20 dives and my AOW. Even I think it should be called something like Adventure OW. It felt more like an introduction cert to other aspects of diving with the additional steps/concerns from a knowledge aspect when doing deep/night dives. The deep dive was more to check a box as we just barely went below 60 ft and I didn't feel any of the narcosis effects. The abbreviated PPB was about the only useful skill. Most of the dives felt more like do a quick skill drill on the subject and then go enjoy the dive.

A lot of people share your sentiments. As to the name of the cert, "Advanced Open Water Diver," it has been pointed out that it should be read literally: someone who has advanced in some prescribed manner beyond Open Water Diver Diver. The name of the cert is not "Advanced Diver." I recall in my youth getting qualified in summer camp as an "Advanced Beginner Swimmer," which was the next step after getting qualified as a "Beginner Swimmer." I had advanced beyond beginner, but I was hardly an advanced swimmer. No, I think the name "Advanced Open Water Diver" make sense; the key is to read the name literally. It seems to me that insurance companies aren't interpreting the cert correctly if they are requiring the dive ops they insure to request an AOW card as a ticket to an advanced site.