Ops requiring AOW certs?

[Trace Malinowski]

That is a total situation that is FUBAR

I tried to get a nitrox fill with my trimix card and they did not want to take it. wanted a nitrox card if possible.

Been there. Heard that myself.

 

[Oldbear]

Because on principle alone I don't want to give the agency another dime.

Based on your principle I would never take you deeper than 60 fsw. If your principles keep your mind so closed that you are unwilling to take such an easy course as AOW that can have added value to any diver that has only an Open Water cert, I would consider you an unnecessary risk to my business.

Enjoy your shore dives...

The training agency makes about $40 per student off of educational materials and the cert card process. The instructor makes about $50 from the course and the dive shop makes about $30. The rest of the course's fees goes towards business expenses. Based on your statement that a dime is too much to part with, you sound like you are in the group of people that feels training agencies, dive business and instructors should just give their services and products away for free and if you HAVE to pay you are getting ripped off.

I wonder if you feel the same way when you deposit your paycheck in the bank...how while you earned the money, you really should NOT be compensated fairly but given less than a dime.

 

[EricTheDood]

If it's truely an insurance liability issue I can understand but I'm surprised.

What other issue could it possibly be?

 

[BDSC]

I was certified in 91 and within a month I was off to the Keys. We dove the Duane and Bib and the shop did not require me to have AOW. About a year or two later I got my AOW cert because everyone kept telling me I had to have it to dive a lot of places. For the life of me I can't recall ever having to prove I had AOW to dive somewhere but I've been to a lot of places and dove with a lot of different shops and maybe I did.

I'm a believer in getting your OW cert and then go diving before you take AOW. But the catch is when I finally took AOW, I suspect I had over 100 dives at that point including night dives, deep dives, etc, so I don't think I really learned or experienced anything I hadn't already learned or done. It was just to get the card. So I can see why doing an AOW course right after you get OW might be more beneficial as you are still in a learning phase of diving but I still think folks should wait.

 

[BDSC]

What other issue could it possibly be?

Insurance/liability is one of the most common fake excuses a dive op, or any business for that matter, will use to justify something. They will just tell you "it's because of insurance". It's easier to just say that rather than actually explain some rule or requirement that might seem unnecessary or unpopular.

 

[TrimixToo]

I've been asked to show proof of (at least) AOW on Lake Erie, the Thousand Islands, and the NY/NJ boats.

As the co-leader of a diving project for the past few years, I now have a very different perspective on certification and experience requirements. I can fully understand why captains are cautious. One captain asked me for references and called them *all* before letting me on the boat for the first time; I applaud that. The bottom line is that the captain or dive op owner is the one who owns the boat, and it's up to them who to allow to board. "Because that's how we do it" is all the reason they need to give you.

 

[NAM001]

I was certified in 91 and within a month I was off to the Keys. We dove the Duane and Bib and the shop did not require me to have AOW. About a year or two later I got my AOW cert because everyone kept telling me I had to have it to dive a lot of places. For the life of me I can't recall ever having to prove I had AOW to dive somewhere but I've been to a lot of places and dove with a lot of different shops and maybe I did.

I'm a believer in getting your OW cert and then go diving before you take AOW. But the catch is when I finally took AOW, I suspect I had over 100 dives at that point including night dives, deep dives, etc, so I don't think I really learned or experienced anything I hadn't already learned or done. It was just to get the card. So I can see why doing an AOW course right after you get OW might be more beneficial as you are still in a learning phase of diving but I still think folks should wait.

No you probably did not learn anything but you have the card and the card is the get out of jail pass for operators. It goes along with the waiver. Face it as liability goes all else being equal which has the higher risk to the business OW's or AOW's. Right or wrong it is like saying which has more risk on the highway a 16 yo or a 40 yo. Statistically the older is the safer ,less risk driver.. there are I am sure those that have OW's that can dive circles around some DM's. those situations always exist. however the fundamental of the one with the most training is the lower risk diver.

 

[TrimixToo]

Been there. Heard that myself.

You two are not alone. Then there was the fill monkey who didn't want to lend me the analyzer after topping a nitrox fill with air. "You don't need that, you didn't get a nitrox fill." You Just Can't Make This Stuff Up (tm).

 

[Caveeagle]

...The training agency makes about $40 per student off of educational materials and the cert card process. The instructor makes about $50 from the course and the dive shop makes about $30. The rest of the course's fees goes towards business expenses. Based on your statement that a dime is too much to part with, you sound like you are in the group of people that feels training agencies, dive business and instructors should just give their services and products away for free and if you HAVE to pay you are getting ripped off.

@Oldbear.. I don't think most people really think they should get instruction for free.. and would like dive professionals to make a decent living.. But I think you should at least acknowledge how the "certification" checkpoints might appear to some of us. I remember being asked if I had a cert card for diving doubles back in the mid 90's when I went to Dutch Springs. At that point, I had a NACD cert card, and dive log showing over 100 cave dives in doubles, but the dive op I was tagging along with kind of gave me a little grief and thought I should be sporting some sort of tech cert ...or something for diving doubles.. I didn't even own a single tank BC at that point..

There was a poster here just this week with <20 dives that had their AOW certification. I know that the #of dives is not always the only way to appraise proficiency, but I think the AOW cert can be just sort of a "toll booth" for divers who want to graduate a level. And is not really a good indicator of experience.

I can personally give you an example of one of my kids that has NOT yet completed AOW, but has dove with me quite a bit, and has demonstrated much more to me than the AOW requirements. ie: Nitrox, Night dives, cavern dives(Ginnie Ball Room & Blue Grotto), competency using a reel and SMB, Drift and boat dives.

In all cases, he was calm, in control and very proficient. He will be getting his AOW card this year, but it is only to make sure we don't get any resistance on boat charters etc.

Having said all that.. Just talk openly with your dive operator. I am pretty sure most of them will work with you if you really have the experience needed. If not.. just move on to another boat.

 

[CT Sean]

FWIW, at least a few of the dive ops I've dived with in FL say AOW is necessary for the deeper wrecks OR you have to pay a DM to accompany you.

Just a couple of the disclaimers on various Keys dive ops' sites:

All wreck dives require an Advanced Open Water certification or your log book showing 3 dives below 80′ in the last 6 months. If you do not have either of the above then you will have to pay for a DM or Instructor to accompany you on the dive.

The depth of the Adolphus Busch wreck requires Advanced Open Water (AOW) certification or higher. Open Water Divers desiring to dive on the Adolphus Busch must be accompanied by a guide.