Best Method for Achieving Trim

[Storker]

20mm on my core and 10mm on arm/legs, so not a trivial issue.

Time to consider going dry. Just sayin'.

 

[PfcAJ]

Expansion of the wetsuit going from sea level to 6,000', a very thick farmer john/beaver tail, that I love, with 20mm on my core and 10mm on arm/legs, so not a trivial issue. Plus a series of two new different tanks.

I'm supposed to set up on land the things I can control to my best advantage, because the ocean may add enough new uncontrolled stuff for me to worry about.

Ah, missed that. Was too flabbergasted by the idea of constant fiddling with 1lb weights.

Still doesn't change my point. YOU need to control yourself in the water and not rely on the equipment to do it for you.

 

[KenGordon]

Another thing, or two, to think about....

Getting an opportunity to experiment is very useful. Doing a lot of dives in a short time and gently changing things is also helpful. Things like removing weight 0.5kg at a time and doing a whole dive that way can be very interesting, even beyond a traditional weight check.

 

[MichaelMc]

Ah, missed that. Was too flabbergasted by the idea of constant fiddling with 1lb weights.

Still doesn't change my point. YOU need to control yourself in the water and not rely on the equipment to do it for you.

I do. And I control my equipment to make that easier.
Least you think I would be helpless if my static weight distribution were not perfect to the pound inch, I dive in fairly low vis (5-10') surge conditions, trying to help a pair of students learn to safely and accurately count small invertebrates on the bottom in that environment (learning to do something hard while staying safe). I can deal with two pounds in the wrong place. My job is easier if I put it in the right place and do not have to think at all about how I float in the water while being bashed about by the surge through the channels in the reef amongst the kelp and the students I'm watching over as they count stuff along a tape they laid out.

For the OP, Ken's point above is very valid, and I think my mechanism assists that.

 

[PfcAJ]

My job is easier if I put it in the right place and do not have to think at all about how I float in the water

If you stopped fiddling you'd also stop thinking about it.

Sounds like you've trained yourself to be unable to be comfortable without moving little weights around. I assure you that its possible to have good trim and be comfortable without all that, even if you do change things like tanks and exposure protection. But if you aren't interested in learning that and insist on looking to external solutions you'll never get it.

 

[seeker242]

If possible, submerge a mirror in a pool and practice in front of it. Couple people I know have done that and they said it helps a lot.

 

[KevinNM]

If possible, submerge a mirror in a pool and practice in front of it. Couple people I know have done that and they said it helps a lot.

Even better, have a skilled instructor video you in the water as you try some things and then talk about it with you after the dive. Most people find it amazing (ok, more like shocking) to see what they are actually doing, and then can see it improve when they make some changes. It also helps you gain more awareness over what your body is doing and getting it to stop doing counter productive things.

 

[MichaelMc]

If you stopped fiddling you'd also stop thinking about it.

Sounds like you've trained yourself to be unable to be comfortable without moving little weights around. I assure you that its possible to have good trim and be comfortable without all that, even if you do change things like tanks and exposure protection. But if you aren't interested in learning that and insist on looking to external solutions you'll never get it.

It's an interesting question of whether you deliberately set up your gear to add extra task loading, in training or performance.

Your profile says you are cave trained. I've only read many of the class description threads. Many of them discuss setting up equipment to get trim right. Doing things like moving tank bands, different weight fins, moving weights etc. With the goal of being able to hold trim, without maybe a very awkward body position or lots of finning.

Say, while training a cave diver, weight position A got the diver able to hold trim with moderate finning or leg position changes, and setting B got them able to do it with minute or no finning or leg position changes. Would you go with setting B, the one that needed less active finning? Realizing that setting A will give them ongoing practice at getting down the unconscious corrective movements? And maybe thinking that the natural current and body motions in the cave would not already give them that practice. Maybe you should, but I do not guess that people do.

If you have your trim down, and do one dive with lighter fins that cause your corrective finning or leg position to need to change to hold trim, you likely might not change any of your weighting for that dive. If you switched to those fins, would you leave your weights the old way, or shift weights to allow for less corrective finning and a leg position back to a more central position within the range you can easily hold it in?

I'm just shifting weight once, in the water for that dive, to make that new gear adjustment. I'm not moving them constantly during the dive.

 

[Marie13]

Even better, have a skilled instructor video you in the water as you try some things and then talk about it with you after the dive. Most people find it amazing (ok, more like shocking) to see what they are actually doing, and then can see it improve when they make some changes. It also helps you gain more awareness over what your body is doing and getting it to stop doing counter productive things.

I had a nearly 3 hour pool session with my instructors this weekend and they brought their GoPro. I've seen stills of myself underwater before, but seeing yourself actually moving? Wow! Really eye opening. I had a good laugh when my legs had a couple of WTF moments (couldn't figure out what to do) when I was working on frog kick.

 

[PfcAJ]

It's an interesting question of whether you deliberately set up your gear to add extra task loading, in training or performance.

Your profile says you are cave trained. I've only read many of the class description threads. Many of them discuss setting up equipment to get trim right. Doing things like moving tank bands, different weight fins, moving weights etc. With the goal of being able to hold trim, without maybe a very awkward body position or lots of finning.

Say, while training a cave diver, weight position A got the diver able to hold trim with moderate finning or leg position changes, and setting B got them able to do it with minute or no finning or leg position changes. Would you go with setting B, the one that needed less active finning? Realizing that setting A will give them ongoing practice at getting down the unconscious corrective movements? And maybe thinking that the natural current and body motions in the cave would not already give them that practice. Maybe you should, but I do not guess that people do.

If you have your trim down, and do one dive with lighter fins that cause your corrective finning or leg position to need to change to hold trim, you likely might not change any of your weighting for that dive. If you switched to those fins, would you leave your weights the old way, or shift weights to allow for less corrective finning and a leg position back to a more central position within the range you can easily hold it in?

I'm just shifting weight once, in the water for that dive, to make that new gear adjustment. I'm not moving them constantly during the dive.

That is correct, I am cave trained. On a cave dive, its not uncommon to end up with stages that have a 4lb buoyancy shift. Maybe a few of them. Then maybe you'll pick up a heavy deco bottle. Maybe a scooter. Imagine if every time I picked up or dropped gear I'd have to re-work my weight configuration. That'd be just nutty.

Instead, I choose to dive the gear. I (and you) can make subtle adjustments to body position to allow for effortless trim. To me, this is FAR superior than being reliant on equipment to make my trim for me.