Would you do it THAT way?

[Neilwood]

Hell no - no way I would consider this. If the DM started to head in and I was in his group I would thumb the dive straight away.

I know enough about cave diving to know I don't know anything about cave diving so I would not even consider it.

 

[BDSC]

I was just curious to see what other guys are thinking about this kind of guided-dives and how they would react if the guide will bring them at the door of a cavern.

If it's truly a cavern, I would have no problem going in or following a dive guide. If it were a cave, I wouldn't go.

I will say I have been diving in a cave in Mexico. There is a system called Dos Ojos. It's basically a figure 8 where there is one dive guide to either 3 or 4 divers. It's really not very long or deep and there are a few places along the way that you could surface and even leave if you wanted to. But at certain points, that is not an option. It's an easy dive and if you follow simple directions from the dive guide, I view it as quite safe even without cave training. Would do it again in a heartbeat. Would be very difficult to get lost unless a diver purposely tried to.

 

[andrei_c]

BDSC, thanks for post. I have a comment on it.

The issue (in my opinion) is that you never know if it is "just a truly cavern". What is start as a cavern, could actually develop as a labyrinth cave. The guide's intention is to take a tour of the cavern and get out but... He knows there are some lateral passages (sometimes even one is enough!) which he will avoid so no problem but... again but. Some of the guided tourists, usually an OW, will kick hard on the floor - exactly when the guide is looking after the others-, the silt will engulf the tourist (sometimes more than just one), the poor guy panic, swims in the wrong direction, more silt, pace increase, the exit is not there. The OW diver swims harder, faster, exist is farther and farther... and that's it. Another casualties in the black record.

 

[gbf]

I view it as quite safe even without cave training."... "Would be very difficult to get lost unless a diver purposely tried to."

Respectfully, I disagree. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I don't believe what you are advocating is in the best interest of OW divers. To each their own, but I hope the population of OW divers tempted to enter the overhead will NOT.

A cavern is truly a cavern only as long as you can see daylight. I've been "lost" in a "cavern" at 15' with the exit almost directly overhead - sunshine on my legs but not in my eyes. It was not a happy feeling.

I started cave diving in 1976, retired in 1992. NACD and NSS-CDS certs (but only PADI OW). Now I'm old and lazy, and like to dive in the warm, clear blue with all the fishies and my girls.

Neither I nor my family will participate in ANY overhead diving without appropriate equipment and planning (A dive guide to lead does not constitute planning). This includes things like HH on Bonaire, Calvins Crack, Ginnie Ballroom, etc.

I understand that this might seem a bit extreme, and I do get funny looks from DMs when I decline the swim-throughs and we go over the top - and some "aw Dad"s when we get back on the boat.

Oh, and the reason I quit cave diving: I got stuck in a zero vis silt-out and it scared the shxt out of me. I still have cold-sweat nightmares about it, and that was 20+ years ago.

A cavern can (and has) turned from a cavern into a zero vis silt-out cave instantaneously. I don't wanna be there.

.

 

[BDSC]

Respectfully, I disagree. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I don't believe what you are advocating is in the best interest of OW divers. To each their own, but I hope the population of OW divers tempted to enter the overhead will NOT.

I don't take it as being argumentative at all, but look at it as just a valid opinion but different from mine.

There have been lots of threads on SB about overhead environments and should a person go into such without "proper training" and exactly what is proper training. Is it taking an actual course or can it be learned from experience? I know some folks like yourself that just say no and that's fine. Some folks won't even go through a swim-thru because technically, it's an overhead environment. But many others, including myself, see no problem with going thru a typical Caribbean swim-thru and don't feel additional training is necessary to safely do that. I suspect it's done 100's if not 1000's of times a day and we're not seeing a rising body count from doing so.

The bottom line is folks need to do what they feel comfortable with when doing their dives. What folks view as being dangerous or risky can vary greatly.

 

[gbf]

I don't take it as being argumentative at all, but look at it as just a valid opinion but different from mine.

There have been lots of threads on SB about overhead environments and should a person go into such without "proper training" and exactly what is proper training. Is it taking an actual course or can it be learned from experience? I know some folks like yourself that just say no and that's fine. Some folks won't even go through a swim-thru because technically, it's an overhead environment. But many others, including myself, see no problem with going thru a typical Caribbean swim-thru and don't feel additional training is necessary to safely do that. I suspect it's done 100's if not 1000's of times a day and we're not seeing a rising body count from doing so.

The bottom line is folks need to do what they feel comfortable with when doing their dives. What folks view as being dangerous or risky can vary greatly.

Yes indeed, to each their own.

I don't really care about "proper training". When i started cave diving there was little available. I didn't do the certs until relatively late, and really only then because some sites started requiring them to dive - same reason I'm gonna buy an AOW card here soon. I did have some good folks whose names you would recognize either a) tell me I was gonna die or b) help me get squared away.

Knowledge and understanding (and planning and equipment) are required. Experience is also good. How one gets there is of little matter to me. But if you ain't there, please don't go in.

And this is argumentative It's not "technically" an overhead. It IS an overhead, granted, a relatively benign one, but still, an overhead environment. I know full well that the odds of anybody drowning in Calvins Crack are vanishingly low. But I preach to my lovely children (I think they have my lectures numbered), so...

 

[BDSC]

I'll think about you this April when I'm diving Calvins Crack in Roatan. There is another dive site there called Bears Den I think it is. You swim in, turn around, and swim out. Anthony's Key has a killer 2-1 deal in 2016 so we have 16 folks going.

 

[gbf]

I'll think about you this April when I'm diving Calvins Crack in Roatan. There is another dive site there called Bears Den I think it is. You swim in, turn around, and swim out. Anthony's Key has a killer 2-1 deal in 2016 so we have 16 folks going.

I'm jealous.

 

[The Chairman]

Anthony's Key has a killer 2-1 deal in 2016 so we have 16 folks going.

An ironic twist of phrase in this context.

 

[BDSC]

So much so you said it twice!