Would you do it THAT way?

[andrei_c]

Hi, everybody.
Just found out on youtube a nice movie took in Greece, Kefalonia
Here is the link: (cave diving in Kefalonia)

The cave looks very nice, very tempting. I enjoyed every second till... Hm, something is wrong (in my opinion)

What do you think? Would you do it the way those guys are doing it?

 

[Patoux01]

Skimmed through it... Looks a lot like what quite some people do in France...

I suspect most of this might be in the "cavern" zone however. Still stupid if you ask me...

 

[andrei_c]

Thank you for your comment, Patoux01!

Actually, my intention was to comment situations which often pop-up during guided-dives.

The thinks are going like this: You are diving in a nice place, with crystal clear water, the guide is taking you (and the rest of the group) to see a “a very nice cave” – which usually is a cavern but still! What are you doing? Follow blindly the guide based on the fact that his dive center is doing it all the time and you assume the guy is a “specialist of that area”? Stop at the entrance and wait until the group (hopefully!) will get out? Call the dive? Or take out your reel (if you have one with you!), make a primary tie, than a second one and go in to explore despite the astonished and contemptuous glances of the others?

I remember a case two years ago (if I’m not wrong), somewhere on the coast of Italy. A group of 4 divers died because they followed the guide inside a “very safe cavern, just to take a look”.

 

[beester]

Yes I would deffo do it... but before doing it I would drink about half a bottle of kentucky bourbon. Because I know drinking half a liter of that stuff will improve my awareness, which I'll need going into this cavern/cave area, without any overhead training, equipment, experience and following a dive-guide without any of the above either on what basically is a trust-me dive!

What do you think??? :whacky:

Seriously there are a lot of spots where you have sea-cavern-cave areas. Greece, North W of Italy, Calanques in France, North Eastern part of Spain (the whole area from the Fr border up to Estartit is littered with cavern/caves like this).

Have I seen people do this with this kind of equipment and basically no overhead diving training or experience, yes a lot. For instance in the Estartit area you have quite a lot of these caves even with entries quite deep (40m). And many divers dive these or follow guides from local diveshops into these taking big risks. Do people die... yes.

So what's the purpose of this little clip? It's a retoric question if you want to know if it is safe (you already know it is not). Everything else is up to you...

 

[andrei_c]

Thanks, Beester!
As you can see from my answer to Patoux01, I also consider this kind of dives as dangerous. Definitely it wasn't my intention to promote this kind of stuff. Conversely!
I was just curious to see what other guys are thinking about this kind of guided-dives and how they would react if the guide will bring them at the door of a cavern. It happened to me once. I took out my reel and follow the steps. But I have to be honest and tell you that I felt a little bit embarrassed when I saw the glances of the others. On the other hand, I prefer to be embarrassed and alive than lost in a "small and harmless cavern"

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Isn't this the sort of diving that got some folks killed in Italy a couple years ago?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fsardone]

Isn't this the sort of diving that got some folks killed in Italy a couple years ago?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It did. A group of eight 4 survivors and 4 deceased.
There also is a criminal case ongoing.
The story pretty much is: the guides in that areas used to do it all the times, except this time the group took a wrong turn in a very dangerous branch called the mud tunnel: guess why. These were newly OWD certified divers with no overhead training except one of the survivors if my memory serves me right which was the owner of the diving center and he is now under criminal prosecution for manslaughter.

This was end of june 2012. It raised a bit of overhead awareness in Italy but not much. It is an unfortunate recurring occurence for people to go in overhead during trust me dives.
This happens a lot in areas like Palinuro or Capo Caccia were the caves and caverns are luring a lot of people to dive but these are untrained for overhead, open water divers, most of the time.

This is were my dive turns into a solo dive (it take time to pull out the reel and properly lay line).

 

[Storker]

Let's see...

Singles rigs in an overhead environment - AFAIK a bad idea.
Can't see any redundant lights - I always carry one, even in OW, if I need a light to see where I am and where I'm going (like if I'm night diving). That place looks like one where you'd need a light to see that.
Overhead, but no line in sight - AFAIK a bad idea.
Dangling octo - not just poor style, but also a pretty bad idea wherever you may be close to something hard that can snag it.
I haven't seen their certs, but I have a sneaking suspicion that these guys don't have any overhead training.

No, I wouldn't do it like these guys do it. For once, my wife would be mightily pi$$ed off at me if I went and got myself killed that way (and I don't want my wife to be pi$$ed off at me). Besides, I plan to die peacefully in my bed from old age, not from drowning in a place where I have a physical barrier between myself and the big tank o' gas in the sky.

You are diving in a nice place, with crystal clear water, the guide is taking you (and the rest of the group) to see a “a very nice cave” – which usually is a cavern but still! What are you doing? Follow blindly the guide based on the fact that his dive center is doing it all the time and you assume the guy is a “specialist of that area”?

Not just no, but HELL, NO! And I've already pi$$ed off one dive guide by making that quite clear.

 

[andrei_c]

It is exactly why I have post this here and not in the cave diving section. Hopefully the OW divers will read it and next time when a guide invite them to "just pick a look at a nice cavern/cave" they will say NO WAY!

 

[Patoux01]

Made me think of this one btw, although South West Rocks is a tiny bit easier as it is a straight line. When I went there, I got weird looks from about everyone for asking for 2 tanks. Heck, even some tech divers dismiss the potential issues... (and that one was from one if not the most conservative agency there is when it comes to safety...)