Sidemount and helmets in open water

[Razorista]

So now he can lie about me and that's not harrassment, ey? @NetDoc

Now that's just sick

 

[Bennno]

No @Bennno, i said that cave exploration is not done by certified cave divers in Germany.
And that is very true.

Here is what you said:

However, here in Germany it is next to impossible to get access to a dry cave without being a real explorer with a university degree and cavediving certs are frowned upon.

 

[The Chairman]

@Bennno It's one thing to disagree with someone about any particular aspect. That's way OK. That's the second time you have taken my statements out of context. Read the entire statement. Consider the conditional statements such as "if". You tend to be overly combative on a number of posts, reading things into them that just aren't there. At least, that's my take on it.

 

[Razorista]

Here is what you said: However, here in Germany it is next to impossible to get access to a dry cave without being a real explorer with a university degree and cavediving certs are frowned upon.

Yes, exactly.
Tell me, which dry cave (that has diveable areas relevant to the discussion) can you enter with a cave cert in Germany?
Do you know its official name? Where it is located?

 

[Razorista]

Cave divers go to France and Switzerland for natural caves.
It's only mines otherwise.

Only very few people have access to natural caves and a cave diving cert has nearly no influence on their selection.

There are only two publicly known natural cave systems in Germany anyway, small country, mines since before the ice ages.
Cave systems have been filled, drilled open and collapsed long before anyone was interested if anything could be inside and most of the country today is meters of rubble of thousands of years of civilization.
There are some few other caves of course, but none of them are publicly known to divers as far as I know.

 

[The Chairman]

@Razorista Are you cave certified?

 

[Razorista]

@Razorista Are you cave certified?

As I said: no.

But this concerns public information, nothing cave diving specific.

 

[The Chairman]

As I said: no.

But this concerns public information, nothing cave diving specific.

So, you really have no idea if a full caver asked for permission if they would get it or not.

There are a number of caves in this world that are very, very sensitive to human intrusion. Ash Meadow in Nevada has a very unique system that even though I'm full cave, I simply don't have permission to dive. An inconvenience to me does not negate the unique sensitivity of the Devil's Hole system including a species of pupfish that is only found there. Why would I want to endanger this cute lil' fishie?

 

[Razorista]

I even had a dry caver tell me once he would not wear a helmet for the risk of getting stuck and proving it with pictures.
Rarely saw or heard of any backmount cave diver with a helmet.
As far as I know there are no 'publicly known' German sidemount cave explorers diving in Germany

 

[Razorista]

...this cute lil' fishie?

I have no problem with that really @NetDoc.

I am a bit angry that Blautopf for example would be an interesting lake to dive, but is completely of limits because of the cave.

Also that I know several very small caves myself from childhood, but know I could not enter them with diving equipment without someone noticing.