Are some signals just plain stupid?

[CptTightPants21]

Yeah, I hear what you are saying but what good is a signal if most don't use at as one. You know that there are many including me that likes to flip their mask on top of their forehead. Being a very common practice makes me think that it easily confused and I guess I called it stupid.

As for the fist over the head I was just thinking this as kind of strange and perhaps someone might have a better idea for these signals.

Frank G
Z GEAR - Z Gear

The first on the head, easy, quick, very recognizable. What is not to like? Do you have any recommendations for something that could be spotted from a 100 yards out (assume calm seas)?

As for lots of people with he mask on their head, its a sign of weaker training (or perhaps the point was not adequately stressed is a better way to put it). You were obviously taught about not putting your mask on your forehead.

PLEASE, lets not start the stupid MOF sign of a distressed diver argument again! How many distressed divers are actually going to have the presence of mind to carefully place the mask on the forehead! I am convinced this "rule" was made by bald divers with no hair to get tangled when placed around the neck.

And yes, if a diver as stupid enough to remove their mask in sporty seas, no surprise if they lose their mask.

There are various stages of distress and not all of them are full blown, hands flaying, regulator out of mouth, panic.

In all my time diving I have seen countless divers with their mask on their foreheads, I have yet to see anyone attempt a rescue of said divers. That should tell you how useful the “mask on forehead” signal is to the diving community.

Initiate a rescue? Maybe not. But I, and most people I dive with, would notice a mask on a forehead and pay closer attention. I have never said anything to another diver who was not in my group, but if I had diver who was in my immidate group, like a new OW or someone who was becoming a regular in my scuba circle, I would politely mention not putting their mask on their foreheads if they are not in distress.

The mask isn't a full blown rescue alarm, it is notification that something MIGHT be amiss.

 

[Buoy_A]

The mask on top of head or forehead as a distress signal, really stupid.

Completely agree. I think if you have the ability and presence of mind to put a mask on top of your forehead, you're probably not in distress. Why would someone create a sign out of something that people are naturally inclined to do? Especially such an important sign. Just stupid.

 

[TMHeimer]

MOF good idea when on land walking on slippery seaweed, rocks, etc. (easiest way to grab and don/doff it without stretching the strap). This is probably the only time it is advisable (for peripheral vision walking). Guess saying that would totally confuse OW students (so confusing), so I toe the line & keep my mouth shut and mask on face (snorkel on mask.....) during courses....

 

[RJP]

Completely agree. I think if you have the ability and presence of mind to put a mask on top of your forehead, you're probably not in distress. Why would someone create a sign out of something that people are naturally inclined to do? Especially such an important sign. Just stupid.

Ugh... this really isn't that hard.

signal (siɡ-nəl) noun -- a gesture, action, or sound that is used to convey information or instructions, typically by prearrangement between the parties concerned.

sign (sīn) noun -- an object, quality, or event whose presence or occurrence indicates the probable presence or occurrence of something else

 

[uncfnp]

The confusion is that it is neither a signal nor a sign. It is a conscious choice to ignore outdated assumptions.

 

[Steve_C]

If you are on the boat or standing in shallow water it does not matter where the mask is. I put it on my forehead.

If I am in the water at the surface the mask is on my face. It does not come off my face until I am on the boat or at shore. Why remove the mask? There are several possible bad scenarios and no good reason to remove it as far as I can see.

Same for reg. It stays in my mouth. The only exception is the rare times when I need to say something to somebody when I am on the surface and then it immediately goes back in afterwards. I think it is a bad habit OW get from being debriefed at the surface by the instructor and seeing them remove their reg to talk to the students so they think that is what they should do.

 

[packrat12]

I would say the MOF is neither a signal nor a sign. When they are standing on the boat, is it a sign of panic? I do not think so. After they have calmly signaled OK on the surface, it this a new signal or sign? I do not think so.

From my experience with panicked divers, the normal indication I see is either no mask or the mask pulled around their neck after racing through the water. Normally the first sign of the panic is their continued flailing.

When I learned, the only reason not to put it on your head was because it would get washed off and lost. I still prefer it on my head vs the backwards on my head. I guess that other people’s perception of panic makes this option not my choice! Get real, a panicked person is not sitting calmly on the surface waiting to get picked up.

 

[Buoy_A]

Ugh... this really isn't that hard.

Great. You only have 1.63 billion more corrections left to make on the internetz. Good luck!

 

[kevindsingleton]

I would say the MOF is neither a signal nor a sign. When they are standing on the boat, is it a sign of panic? I do not think so. After they have calmly signaled OK on the surface, it this a new signal or sign? I do not think so. From my experience with panicked divers, the normal indication I see is either no mask or the mask pulled around their neck after racing through the water. Normally the first sign of the panic is their continued flailing. When I learned, the only reason not to put it on your head was because it would get washed off and lost. I still prefer it on my head vs the backwards on my head. I guess that other people’s perception of panic makes this option not my choice! Get real, a panicked person is not sitting calmly on the surface waiting to get picked up.

Do as you wish. I'll still check to make sure you're ok (probably using a stupid signal).

 

[RJP]

The confusion is that it is neither a signal nor a sign. It is a conscious choice to ignore outdated assumptions.

If you've ever seen a panicked diver reject their gear at the surface youd change your assumption.

The real confusion seems to be that a great many people seem to make the assumption that in order for a "sign" to be "a sign" that it must be absolute and universal.

You've no doubt seen patients with a respiratory infection who did not have a fever, I assume. Similarly, you've seen people with an elevated body temperature who did not have a respiratory infection. So would you then suggest that a fever is not a possible symptom of an infection? Of course not.

The fact of the matter is that it is not uncommon for a panicked diver to reject their gear upon surfacing. Feeling like they can't breathe, panicked divers will often spit their regs and shove their mask off their face. Sometimes the mask comes all the way off... but in many cases the mask actually does end up on their forehead.

It happens.

I've seen it.

In an endeavor where it only takes a second for a person in trouble to slip beneath the water and die, I will continue to take notice whenever someone surfaces and pushes their mask up on their forehead. I will not, of course, immediately dive into the water and drag them out. But I will take a second to evaluate whether other possible signs of distress are present. (Just as you wouldn't diagnosis pneumonia based on a fever alone.)

If a diver with a mask on their forehead is comfortably chatting with their buddy about the dive there's obviously no problem. However, if they are breathing a little rapidly/shallow... perhaps they don't look to have established adequate positive buoyancy... are their eyes looking around maybe for a buddy that's not there... are they kicking hard and sculling with their hands?

You can assume that a diver with a mask on their forehead is fine. For my part, having been involved in rescues where noticing a mask shoved up on the victim's forehead was the first sign that something might be wrong, I'll continue to invest the one additional second necessary to actually confirm that they are OK before turning my attention elsewhere.