Doc Deep dies during dive.

[Eric Sedletzky]

Why wasn't hydrogen used in some small quantity to offset some of the helium?

 

[tursiops]

Why wasn't hydrogen used in some small quantity to offset some of the helium?

One word: Hindenburg. Working with hydrogen is not for amateurs....which these guys were.

 

[Akimbo]

I was actually agreeing with you about the lack of distinction between surface supply through an umbilical vs. surface supply via multiple ferried tanks...

I apologize if I left the impression we were debating. That is certainly not the case. I just felt your comments provided a great backdrop to my continuing rant.

... Not sure I understand this, though. I was saying that there are a lot of risky records in the record books, and was wondering to what extent the Guinness people contribute to that risk assumption in people predisposed to chase these records...

That's sort of above my paygrade. I'm more of an "every diver must make their own judgements" guy so blaming Guinness for divers doing stupid things goes against my personal sensibilities. I was hoping to help other readers to appreciate how pointless these records are.

I also don't believe in divers setting limits. I believe in divers understanding the environment, physics, physiology, and themselves well enough to keep them from exceeding their capabilities. That will keep a lot more divers breathing than staying above X feet of sea water. Any of us hot-shot divers with "impressive" résumés and decades of experience can get just as dead as the newest open water diver in 50' of water if we don't keep our brains in gear. Stepping down now. [/SOAPBOX]

---------- Post added August 23rd, 2015 at 07:39 PM ----------

Why wasn't hydrogen used in some small quantity to offset some of the helium?

Not sure I understand this. HydrOx mixtures I am aware of are used to reduce WOB (Work of Breathing) on very deep dives, which 1200' isn't. Oxygen levels are usually well below 1% on the work I have seen. Basically the atomic mass of Hydrogen is 1.00794 amu (atomic mass unit), Helium is 4.002602 amu, and Nitrogen is 14.00674 amu. WOB is more or less proportional as you go deeper. Reducing Nitrogen probably provides more reduction in WOB at these depths than adding a small percentage of Hydrogen.

Besides, decompression algorithms for Hydrogen mixes have a lot less to back them up. Hydrogen is also far less biologically inert than Nitrogen so there could be some uninvestigated surprises lurking. An open sea dive isn't the place to discover them.

 

[doctormike]

That’s sort of above my paygrade. I’m more of an “every diver must make their own judgements” guy so blaming Guinness for divers doing stupid things goes against my personal sensibilities. I was hoping to help other readers to appreciate how pointless these records are.

I agree with you; I understand and support your goal. I think that "blaming Guinness" has a sort of nanny state connotation, that's not really what I meant. I agree that every diver must make their own judgements. But it's possible to both believe that, AND to feel that a culture that celebrates records for their own sake is fertile ground for foolish projects like this one.


And even the Guinness people reserve the right to exclude certain categories. They "do not endorse unsuitable activities or those which could cause potential harm or danger to spectators / animals"

 

[Bob DBF]

I agree with you; I understand and support your goal. I think that "blaming Guinness" has a sort of nanny state connotation, that's not really what I meant. I agree that every diver must make their own judgements. But it's possible to both believe that, AND to feel that a culture that celebrates records for their own sake is fertile ground for foolish projects like this one.


And even the Guinness people reserve the right to exclude certain categories. They "do not endorse unsuitable activities or those which could cause potential harm or danger to spectators / animals"

Guinness ceased to publish records on deep air dives in 2005, it wouldn't be a big stretch for them to do the same for all SCUBA depth records, but I don't know what the body count needs to be. I don't know that it would stop anyone, but it would be harder on ones ego trying to be world famous if almost no one would ever see the record or care, not to mention a lack of a world respected impartial judge which may leave the results in question anyway.

Personally, I don't care if someone wants to play games with Murphy and Darwin, I just wouldn't go up against those two for a measly transitory depth record.



Bob
-------------------------------------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

A man's got to know his limitations.
Harry Callahan

 

[scagrotto]

wondering to what extent the Guinness people contribute to that risk assumption in people predisposed to chase these records.

Do you suppose Sheck Exley would still be famous, at least within the diving community, if Guinness had never started keeping records?

 

[Redshift]

Do you suppose Sheck Exley would still be famous, at least within the diving community, if Guinness had never started keeping records?

I think Exley is more famous for his cave exploration, books and his overall contribution to diving than for depth records.

 

[kensuf]

Do you suppose Sheck Exley would still be famous, at least within the diving community, if Guinness had never started keeping records?

Yes he would.

 

[Wookie]

Do you suppose Sheck Exley would still be famous, at least within the diving community, if Guinness had never started keeping records?

Do you ever notice that it's the dead guys that are famous? We go on and on about Sheck, no one (hardly) discusses Jim Bowden. We talk about David Shaw but not Will Goodman. Who are Verna Van Schaik or Claudia Serpieri?

 

[boulderjohn]

Do you ever notice that it's the dead guys that are famous? We go on and on about Sheck, no one (hardly) discusses Jim Bowden. We talk about David Shaw but not Will Goodman. Who are Verna Van Schaik or Claudia Serpieri?

As several people have noted already, Sheck Exley's greatest contributions to diving were in the area of cave diving. I had to read his book Blueprint for Survival for my certification, and I knew a ton about his cave work before I knew he had set depth records, too.

In the case of David Shaw, the story of his death is very compelling, in large part because he was trying to accomplish something other than set a record when he died. Whether what he was trying to accomplish was worth the risk is very much a topic for debate. If you saw the video Extreme Cave Diving, you saw a segment in which the divers exploring a Bahamas cave come across the decades-old body of a diver, with no sense of who it was. That was a fabrication. The lead diver not only knew where the diver was, he knew who he was. He had found the body on a previous dive. When that diver had been lost, his parents had asked that the body not be retrieved because they did not want any lives risked for such an unimportant purpose. Told that the body had been located, they repeated their wish that it remain in the cave. In contrast, the parents of the diver Shaw was trying to retrieve supported the effort, and their response after the tragedy became a source of enmity between them and Shaw's widow.