Doc Deep dies during dive.

[The Chairman]

Pete, take a look at the first symptom of groupthink (below). If he was deluded... WHY was he deluded?

I get your need to pigeonhole this as Groupthink. You've invested time and reputation on it, so no wonder. Let's look at something obvious

He was an ENT. Line up nine deco instructors next to an ENT and ask another ten divers who they are going to listen to when it comes to physiology. It would be him by a landslide and why not? He's got a real bonafide degree with years of study behind him. In other words, he was the defacto expert.

As an ENT, he was the one to always have the answers. He was charismatic on top of that and was able to convince a lot of others that he was on the right track. Sure, he had a posse, but they were the bus drivers, the sherpas and the worker bees. Rather than being a product of Group Think, this was the product of a maverick: a rogue diver. He even believed his own hype and gave his life trying to prove that he was right. Delusion and denial for sure, but no matter how you try to assign culpability to others, it just isn't there. I just don't see your 'Group Think' here.

 

[Gdog]

I get your need to pigeonhole this as Groupthink. You've invested time and reputation on it, so no wonder. Let's look at something obvious

He was an ENT. Line up nine deco instructors next to an ENT and ask another ten divers who they are going to listen to when it comes to physiology. It would be him by a landslide and why not? He's got a real bonafide degree with years of study behind him. In other words, he was the defacto expert.

As an ENT, he was the one to always have the answers. He was charismatic on top of that and was able to convince a lot of others that he was on the right track. Sure, he had a posse, but they were the bus drivers, the sherpas and the worker bees. Rather than being a product of Group Think, this was the product of a maverick: a rogue diver. He even believed his own hype and gave his life trying to prove that he was right. Delusion and denial for sure, but no matter how you try to assign culpability to others, it just isn't there. I just don't see your 'Group Think' here.

Doc, while I agree with what you are saying, I think the two theories are linked. The leader of the group sets the course and far be it from the group to say otherwise. Kinda like the children's story about the child who shouted out that the King had no clothes when the group were all behind the King in proclaiming he had the finest threads available to the discerning eye, and he had to know because he was the King. Dr. was the defacto expert, and set the course and the group all were on the bus with him. Just my 2 psi....

 

[Rich Poorman]

As a St Croix diver and member of the local dive community, I am shocked at this story, posted today on a local news site. Especially the last paragraph, which is an anonymous quote.

Garman Family Attorney to DPNR: 'You Can Keep The Body, We Just Want The Gear' - Virgin Islands Free Press

Tech diving has been growing in popularity on the island, no doubt due to the close-in availability of extremely deep water — and interesting underwater features at depths >200+ feet. Knowing several of the tech divers as I do, I would say that they are meticulous in their planning, gas mixing, physical conditioning and equipment maintenance. Hopefully, something will be gained from this accident that will add to the body of knowledge about the sport. "Any diver, any dive, any time."

 

[The Chairman]

Except, in this case, they were all blind due to their inherent ignorance. There was no input from within the group because they were out of their league in regards to knowledge and expertise. There's simply no culpability for anyone but Doc Deep and he paid for it dearly.

 

[Jules Verne]

I get your need to pigeonhole this as Groupthink. You've invested time and reputation on it, so no wonder. Let's look at something obvious

He was an ENT. Line up nine deco instructors next to an ENT and ask another ten divers who they are going to listen to when it comes to physiology. It would be him by a landslide and why not? He's got a real bonafide degree with years of study behind him. In other words, he was the defacto expert.

As an ENT, he was the one to always have the answers. He was charismatic on top of that and was able to convince a lot of others that he was on the right track. Sure, he had a posse, but they were the bus drivers, the sherpas and the worker bees. Rather than being a product of Group Think, this was the product of a maverick: a rogue diver. He even believed his own hype and gave his life trying to prove that he was right. Delusion and denial for sure, but no matter how you try to assign culpability to others, it just isn't there. I just don't see your 'Group Think' here.

If I may interject as someone who knows many of the people involved in this tragedy, I think it would be useful to distinguish between culpability and cause. The causes are many, and understanding them is an important exercise. Culpability suggests legal responsibility, and while I think it will be a miracle if S.C.U.B.A./Scuba-Tec survives this, I agree with the idea that Dr. Garman bears the ultimate responsibility for his actions.

But 'group-think' is very much a contributing cause to this tragedy and to diminish the role it played does a disservice to the lessons to be learned.

I have known the folks at S.C.U.B.A. for well over 20 years, and like many others here I watched Saturday's dive from my office window. We live on a small island with a deep canyon (15000'+) just off the north shore and the shelf edge is easily visible from town. I have spoken with two saturation divers and one of the deep support divers and every single facet of @DevonDiver 's analyses accurately describes the culture in the "Tec" department.

And at this point I'd also like to point out that much of the speculation into Dr. Garman's character has arisen from the videos that preceded the dive. I did not know Dr. Garman, but we have dozens of mutual friends, and in the last few days I've discovered many of my friends were patients of his. Each and every one of them says that he was thoughtful and deliberate in his dealings with them, and while no one has called him humble, every indication is that he was not the egomaniac that one might infer from those promotional videos. As "Captain Ed" has said here in these threads, he does radio spots and voice-overs here on island. He's good at the kind of over-the-top hyperbole dripping promotional ad-speak that you get a taste of in the vids, and he has been a tireless promoter of St. Croix diving and tourism. In the aftermath of the tragedy it it is tempting to believe that Dr. Garman and Captain Ed's summation of his "balls" are one in the same, but they are not.

To sum up, culpability rests with the lawyers, but for causes please look to Andy Davis/DevonDiver's article for as clear an understanding of the mindsets that led to this tragedy.

 

[infieldg]

Or HPNS and/or arthralgia made him unable to perform the necessary tasks when he got down there.

Posts like this are invaluable to less experienced divers like me, I'd never heard of HPNS til a few pages into this thread so went and educated myself, now I've learnt that compression arthralgia kicks in at depths I've already done and that rushing to shorten bottom time makes it worse. Time to find a decent book on the effects of diving deep(ish) I think. Thanks!

 

[SterlingCGJ]

As a St Croix diver and member of the local dive community, I am shocked at this story, posted today on a local news site. Especially the last paragraph, which is an anonymous quote.

Garman Family Attorney to DPNR: 'You Can Keep The Body, We Just Want The Gear' - Virgin Islands Free Press

Tech diving has been growing in popularity on the island, no doubt due to the close-in availability of extremely deep water — and interesting underwater features at depths >200+ feet. Knowing several of the tech divers as I do, I would say that they are meticulous in their planning, gas mixing, physical conditioning and equipment maintenance. Hopefully, something will be gained from this accident that will add to the body of knowledge about the sport. "Any diver, any dive, any time."

CRAP!, is that news article for real?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As a St Croix diver and member of the local dive community, I am shocked at this story, posted today on a local news site. Especially the last paragraph, which is an anonymous quote.

Garman Family Attorney to DPNR: 'You Can Keep The Body, We Just Want The Gear' - Virgin Islands Free Press

... the message here, for those who say "let's wait till all the facts come out", is that they never will ... just as they almost never do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

CRAP!, is that news article for real?

I hope the last paragraph is nothing but irresponsible journalism going for more drama.

 

[tomfcrist]

CRAP!, is that news article for real?

I hope the last paragraph is nothing but irresponsible journalism going for more drama.

If it's not, then what are they trying to hide?