Non professional divers taking very young children diving (even in a pool)

[Lorenzoid]

What is interesting is this - in 24 pages of missives not a single case of an uncertified youth being taught, mentored, playing, or unsupervised child being hurt by a non instructor can be found. And yet there are several of us that have admitted to doing this very thing. So either they are so buried in Google you can not find them or the are very very very rare...

Okay, I am persuaded that the reward is worth the risk. Let's go diving.

Seriously, I know enough to know that for a variety of reasons 24 pages of rambling on SB and a Google search are not any sort of statistics on which I would rely. The SB posters who said they have done what Grandpa proposed to do may very well be capable of judging and managing the risk. That doesn't mean Grandpa was. We just don't know. I'll take EFX's anecdote for what it is.

 

[Solarbuddy]

I *am* a current and certified diver (since 1978) and on Saturday rented a tank for our first Scuba Sunday of the summer. I have a rig with an old Cobra integrated computer and 4 secondaries (all serviced within the last couple years) and weight it down on the bottom of the pool. The grandkids, 8, 10, and 13, all swim down, grab a weight from a bucket of soft weights, and just lay there and blow air rings, look at the wavy surface, take their masks on and off, and every other kind of "getting comfortable" pool activity there is. Even the youngest has known for years "exhale on ascent" or "always make bubbles" when ascending. They will rebuke each other if the bubbles aren't noticeable!

The instructors at the local dive shop don't exactly know what I'm doing in the pool, as their mentality is that a "certified instructor" with 2 years of diving knows it all, but a knowledgeable, current, senior diver with degrees in physics and physiology is always a doofus. All in all, that is probably not a bad working assumption for a dive shop, so I don't disagree with anything the OP did or said.

This spring my 12-year-old grandson (now 13) took his PADI Open Water certification course with a group of adults and was by far the most competent of the lot--book learning included. I was listening to the 8 and 10 year old debating methods of mask clearing and fully expect them to do the same in 3-5 years.

 

[redacted]

The instructors at the local dive shop don't exactly know what I'm doing in the pool, as their mentality is that a "certified instructor" with 2 years of diving knows it all, but a knowledgeable, current, senior diver with degrees in physics and physiology is always a doofus. All in all, that is probably not a bad working assumption for a dive shop, so I don't disagree with anything the OP did or said.

May be bad for the shop to think and act that way. That is not the kind of shop where I choose to spend my money, and I doubt if I am alone. When a retailer pisses me off, I shop elsewhere. When they really piss me off, I do what I can to hurt them.

 

[victorzamora]

Okay, I am persuaded that the reward is worth the risk. Let's go diving.

Seriously, I know enough to know that for a variety of reasons 24 pages of rambling on SB and a Google search are not any sort of statistics on which I would rely. The SB posters who said they have done what Grandpa proposed to do may very well be capable of judging and managing the risk. That doesn't mean Grandpa was. We just don't know. I'll take EFX's anecdote for what it is.

That was my stand from the get-go. I think Tammy made the right decision for the shop because the guy said he was doing something outside of agency standards, which is common practice for shops to follow. I think Grandpa might not have been the best suited for the job....but have no way of knowing, I'm simply saying might. I do know that many instructors suck coming out of the IDC and that one-on-one with a competent person from a good, competent, thorough certified diver is a very safe way of doing it. I believe that, often enough, 1-on-1 with a non-instructor is better and safer than a normal OW class. I know I've gotten my fiancee far above and beyond what any OW class would get her (post-cert, btw). When she took her AOW, she was by far the best looking going in and by far the best looking coming out.....and she had good trim&buoyancy . I don't think this is the right move for everyone, and that certifications still certainly serve a purpose, and that agencies are absolutely necessary....I just don't think the concept of diving with family/friends that are not instructors is an atrocity.

 

[EFX]

Wow she must be tall to standup in a 6 foot section of pool. lol

Yeah. Her mom played for Chicago Sky and her Dad's name was .... Jack, and they grew beans on their farm.

What is interesting is this - in 24 pages of missives not a single case of an uncertified youth being taught, mentored, playing, or unsupervised child being hurt by a non instructor can be found. And yet there are several of us that have admitted to doing this very thing. So either they are so buried in Google you can not find them or the are very very very rare...
Ok - now I am going diving...

Well, not so interesting. The few that took their kids are avid, experienced, thoughtful, and careful divers not the buffoon who had one OW dive in the last 10 years and who had a faulty reg he was going to repair. Also, the rarity might be that these accidents aren't being reported as dive accidents. They may be reported as drowning accidents with the cause going down as a footnote. Are the police going to report it to DAN, PADI, SSI ....?

 

[rx7diver]

Interesting thread. I just read the first 68 posts.

Four years ago I walked into the LDS in my parents' hometown hoping to rent a small tank. I told the owner and his store manager that I preferred to have an Al 50 to accommodate my eight-year-old twins who I would be giving their first lessons on scuba in my parents' backyard pool. They apologized since they didn't have any rental 50's, and then asked me if I thought an Al 63 would work okay. It did, and my kids and I had a blast. They now look forward to their scuba lessons every summer when we visit their grandparents.

We're packing now. Last year we practiced forward rolls and back rolls. This year I think we'll practice U/W doff and don and gear exchanges, with and without masks, and maybe using a blackout mask. They are already pretty good at regulator recovery and buddy breathing, having practiced this for three summers in a row, so maybe I'll have them do a skin-to-scuba exchange, which requires them to buddy breathe while they're sharing one set of gear.

They absolutely love this stuff! In fact, I'm always ready to exit the water much, much sooner than they are. I'm *exhausted* when they're begging to try another skill.

Oh, and I'm not a "professional."

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

 

[Lorenzoid]

Oh, and I'm not a "professional."

You've apparently successfully trained yourself to train children in scuba. Congratulations. I didn't interpret any of the comments here as saying only a "professional" can do that without incident--just that it may not turn out as well in every case as it did in yours. Fifty people could chime in here with similar stories, and that would not convince me that it's in a dive shop's best interest to give their blessing to any certified diver who walks in with the intent to try this.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Also, the rarity might be that these accidents aren't being reported as dive accidents. They may be reported as drowning accidents with the cause going down as a footnote. Are the police going to report it to DAN, PADI, SSI ....?

I agree they are a Rarity - police could report it to the CDC who tracks drownings in the US. Whereby if enough footnotes or causation's were noted the CDC or some agency would send out a reminder to folks that SCUBA in your backyard pool is a dangerous endeavor - but without any facts it is hard to justify the concerns...

Smoking and cancer there is a link. Drinking and driving accidents there is a link. Scuba in your backyard pool with a child - I can't find a single link.... Not one...

 

[rx7diver]

You've apparently successfully...

Lorenzoid,

I simply wanted to give an--another--account of things going well, from my first encounter with the new-to-me scuba shop, to my kids' subsequent first backyard pool scuba lessons. If the owner and his store manager had had any concerns, they didn't make me aware of them. Maybe our informal chat while the tank was being filled and the paperwork was being completed had something to do with allaying any concern they might have had (if any).

I'm very glad they didn't delay me from what turned out to be a very special first scuba lesson with my children. And when I returned to get the Al 63 filled and again to return the 63, we all shared laughs at the stories I told them about my kids' first encounters. Much fun for all involved, I think.

Not really trying to convince anyone here of anything, as is always my approach (I hope).

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

 

[oldschoolto]

My 9 yr old son had a beat up Toyota car he drove all over the back roads and in the fields of my 118 acre farm... The kids had fun. And it was a stick.. Some brakes !!!

Jim...