Sexism?

[Manneca]

I don't think it is fair to call it sexist. The reason dive companies make pink scuba gear is because woman want it. If you don't like the pattern then buy something else. Many companies make female wetsuits without flowers. Why do you care what other divers think? If you like flowers go for it, if not buy something else.

Women don't want pink gear. At least a lot of women I know don't want pink gear. Dive companies make pink scuba gear because they think that's what women want. When women buy it because it's the only option, then the companies' expectations are fulfilled and more pink gear comes out.

 

[patrickusaf08]

I want women to enjoy diving and want to dive. If they ask for help I will help if not I won't unless I see something dangerous about to happen. I think it is wise for the divers and industry to want women to dive. More people diving means more money. And also it is nice to spend time with a wife/girl friend doing something you both enjoy.

 

[agilis]

Jill I don't know if you already wrote the article, but IMO you have your hands full, as all depends of the Perspective of each individual, either women or man, since we are not exactly equal, and it depends as well on the Hormone levels in either woman or man, as well as the bad and good experiences by either woman or man

For example
you will get a Sexist reply if you ask a Feminist woman
you will get a Sexist reply if you ask a Macho/Jerk man
you will get a Sexist reply if you ask a woman with bad male experiences
you will get a Sexist reply if you ask a man with high Testosterone level

you will get a NOT sexist reply if you ask a woman that is not a Feminist
you will get a NOT sexist reply if you ask a man that just simple like to help around
you will get a NOT sexist reply if you ask a woman that just like to gentlemen helping
you will get a NOT sexist reply if you ask a man that just is in his own world day dreaming and did not notice a woman need or wanted help

Then comes in woman that like to flirting and the woman that have high levels of Testosterone and/or low levels of estrogen
Then comes in woman that had very bad luck to meet just jerk man
Then comes in the man that just try to hit on anything that have to legs and moves
Then comes in the man that just give a Shait and have the attitude of " you want woman liberation deal with it carry your on shait"
Then comes in the woman that have the attitude " I deal with my own shait so fuc* off "

Then you have bot woman and man that like to play the game and are good in it.

and you can count a ton of different perspectives of how a man or woman approach different things and/or perceive different things in live.

you have a lot of man that just think that because o woman ask him to help that she wants to get laid with him
you a have a lot of woman that have imbalance of hormones and do really have a bitc* attitude
you have woman that just want to get laid ( no offence in this )
you have man that are nice persons and just want conversation and woman think he is hitting on her.

You have woman that get along better with woman
You have woman that get along better with man
You have man and woman that are easy going and get along with either gender.

same for man.

All this perspectives will show you a sexist or not sexist way of how either man or woman see it

So which way do you want your article to go or how do you want to approach it ???

Woman and Man are different but they complement each other, if you are a man or a woman that just think this is not so, then there is something wrong, and that is OK you can be all the wrong you want to be, that is the nice or not so nice thing, differences between individuals, every individual digs his own grave yard in live in a good or bad way.

I think you are dead wrong about feminist women. Any rational modern woman who is not a feminist has got either a serious psychological problem or misunderstands the meaning of 'feminist'. The same hold true for any modern rational man, actually.

The great majority of men and women I know are feminists, even those who do not realize it. Advocating equal treatment and opposing discrimination on the basis of gender makes a person a feminist, by definition. I think anti-female sexist propaganda has corrupted the term feminist for the easily manipulated into some sort of anti-male stereotype. This is utter nonsense.

People truly opposed to feminism, opposed to fair and equal treatment simply on the basis of gender, are inhabitants of dirty and diseased cultures.

In many kinds of situations, including group scuba, people will often offer assistance to those who are less skilled or less physically able. Courtesy requires that such assistance be offered discretely and judiciously, never aggressively and never in a condescending manner.

As an older diver (73) I'm sometimes annoyed by the excessive attentions I get from DMs, but I understand their motivations. I'm fortunate in that I'm still stronger and more competent that the average diver I run across on tropical resort head boats, so I generally do the offering of assistance, but only when it seems to be desired, and never based on gender. In fact, most of the time that I offer assistance it's to men younger than me floundering awkwardly, unable to properly set up their equipment, clumsy and obviously nervous. Usually, though, I mind my own business.

 

[Freewillow]

I think you are dead wrong about feminist women. Any rational modern woman who is not a feminist has got either a serious psychological problem or misunderstands the meaning of 'feminist'. The same hold true for any modern rational man, actually.

:lol:

 

[ams511]

Women don't want pink gear. At least a lot of women I know don't want pink gear. Dive companies make pink scuba gear because they think that's what women want. When women buy it because it's the only option, then the companies' expectations are fulfilled and more pink gear comes out.

Maybe the women in your circles don't want pink gear but there have been plenty of posts from women looking for pink wings, fins, webbing, regulators, etc. Also there are plenty of non-pink wetsuits women's wetsuits available, so if you don't want pink you don't need to buy it.

---------- Post added May 18th, 2015 at 09:57 AM ----------

Advocating equal treatment and opposing discrimination on the basis of gender makes a person a feminist, by definition. I think anti-female sexist propaganda has corrupted the term feminist for the easily manipulated into some sort of anti-male stereotype.

At 73, I think you remember feminism fondly with bra burnings and free sex. Feminists today don't want equal treatment, they want preferential treatment. If we take social security for example, women live on average longer then men, so why do they get to retire at the same age? Shouldn't they retire latter? Pay more taxes? or get less benefits? Take health insurance as another example, women want gender neutral policies but statistically they use a lot more health benefits then men so they pay more, not to mention men cannot get pregnant. So with gender neutral rates men now subsidize women's healthcare. Also once some women get into a position of power they want to hire more women. I have seen this myself. It is discrimination.

 

[agilis]

I think you are dead wrong about feminist women. Any rational modern woman who is not a feminist has got either a serious psychological problem or misunderstands the meaning of 'feminist'. The same hold true for any modern rational man, actually.

:lol:

You demonstrate a limited communication ability; unsurprising, but more than adequate to fully express your thoughts.

---------- Post added May 18th, 2015 at 02:33 PM ----------

Maybe the women in your circles don't want pink gear but there have been plenty of posts from women looking for pink wings, fins, webbing, regulators, etc. Also there are plenty of non-pink wetsuits women's wetsuits available, so if you don't want pink you don't need to buy it.

---------- Post added May 18th, 2015 at 09:57 AM ----------



At 73, I think you remember feminism fondly with bra burnings and free sex. Feminists today don't want equal treatment, they want preferential treatment. If we take social security for example, women live on average longer then men, so why do they get to retire at the same age? Shouldn't they retire latter? Pay more taxes? or get less benefits? Take health insurance as another example, women want gender neutral policies but statistically they use a lot more health benefits then men so they pay more, not to mention men cannot get pregnant. So with gender neutral rates men now subsidize women's healthcare. Also once some women get into a position of power they want to hire more women. I have seen this myself. It is discrimination.

I remember early feminism as a movement that was as actively suppressed and reviled as the movement against racial discrimination. It was usually the same kind of people who opposed both movements- political Neanderthals, not to put too fine a point on it.

Bra-burning was a very limited activity, something engaged in by a tiny number of people, mostly for publicity. It was about as common as anti-war vets throwing their medals on the steps of the Pentagon. I was an anti-war vet, but I still have all my stuff. Describing bra burners as typical feminists is simple ignorance, the kind encouraged by the media of the day. Pure stupidity.

Sex has never been freer than it is now. Spending as much time on college campuses as I do, I can absolutely assure you of that. Anyone who thinks early feminists were free love advocates just was not around back then.

That some people live longer than others should not affect social security. Blacks have a lower life expectancy than whites. Should they get full benefits earlier?

Should health benefits for people with conditions like diabetes be restricted or made more expensive? Insurance company executives might agree, but certainly no civilized human.

Women have children This fact of nature and biology creates its own health vulnerabilities. Should the men who impregnate these health care expensive women share the higher rates you suggest? Men cannot get pregnant (yet) but they are an indispensable part of that expensive process (so far). Little kids, especially preemies, have high health costs. High education costs, too. I suppose single men with vasectomies should have special tax exemptions. Gay men too, now that HIV is no longer a mostly gay men's disease.

Men are immune from the tendency to hire other men? Really?

Think before you touch a single finger to your keyboard.

 

[Laurie S.]

The only way I'd ever wear pink gear is if someone put it on me after I died.

 

[rivers]

I think you are dead wrong about feminist women. Any rational modern woman who is not a feminist has got either a serious psychological problem or misunderstands the meaning of 'feminist'. The same hold true for any modern rational man, actually.

The great majority of men and women I know are feminists, even those who do not realize it. Advocating equal treatment and opposing discrimination on the basis of gender makes a person a feminist, by definition. I think anti-female sexist propaganda has corrupted the term feminist for the easily manipulated into some sort of anti-male stereotype. This is utter nonsense.

People truly opposed to feminism, opposed to fair and equal treatment simply on the basis of gender, are inhabitants of dirty and diseased cultures.

In many kinds of situations, including group scuba, people will often offer assistance to those who are less skilled or less physically able. Courtesy requires that such assistance be offered discretely and judiciously, never aggressively and never in a condescending manner.

As an older diver (73) I'm sometimes annoyed by the excessive attentions I get from DMs, but I understand their motivations. I'm fortunate in that I'm still stronger and more competent that the average diver I run across on tropical resort head boats, so I generally do the offering of assistance, but only when it seems to be desired, and never based on gender. In fact, most of the time that I offer assistance it's to men younger than me floundering awkwardly, unable to properly set up their equipment, clumsy and obviously nervous. Usually, though, I mind my own business.

I don't consider myself a feminist. I am for equal rights for everyone, regardless of sex, gender, race, age, sexual orientation, etc. There is very much a disparity on white vs black/latino/etc, male vs female, young vs old, the so-called religious protection bills being passed through various state house and senates, etc. It's so much more than male vs female, and that's why i'm not a feminist. I get flack for it, and i don't care.

 

[drrich2]

Women don't want pink gear. At least a lot of women I know don't want pink gear. Dive companies make pink scuba gear because they think that's what women want. When women buy it because it's the only option, then the companies' expectations are fulfilled and more pink gear comes out.

For low volume high cost production runs, I imagine one must market to the lowest common denominator. If targeting a female specific demographic, what's the simplest & easiest reasonably likely to be effective way to catch their eye and appeal?

I don't know if it's pink or not, but in our culture, pink has a fairly strong feminine association, many women like to 'look female' and scuba gear is bulky and awkward enough that minor style refinements might not be attention getting.

For comparison, let's say someone wants to market a new line of wetsuits to a mainly male demographic, and decides to use camouflage patterns. That doesn't mean all mean like camouflage, or idolize hunting or the military. It simply means the business concluded that would be distinctive and appeal to a substantial subset of the target audience.

And the female demographic don't necessarily make it easy to vendors. In another thread way back when I think I asked what 'fashions' (designs, whatever) women divers wanted. I don't recall getting good, consistent answers. Watching women shop for clothes leads me to suspect they like a lot of selection. Evidently the scuba gear industry can't justify the costs & other problems associated with putting out that kind of selection.

But if pink gear offends, here's a question for you. If a wetsuit vendor wants to make a line of wetsuits specifically for women, what color, patterning, decoration, etc…, should they make it? Plain black, with maybe a small amount of color trim, like the men's wetsuits, so they won't be called sexist?

Richard.

 

[agilis]

I don't consider myself a feminist. I am for equal rights for everyone, regardless of sex, gender, race, age, sexual orientation, etc. There is very much a disparity on white vs black/latino/etc, male vs female, young vs old, the so-called religious protection bills being passed through various state house and senates, etc. It's so much more than male vs female, and that's why i'm not a feminist. I get flack for it, and i don't care.

Consider what your attitudes would have defined you as 40 years ago. Time passes and what was once considered a defining and militant perspective has become normalized, even mainstream. That's the great gift that younger women have been given by an earlier generation of women who had to adopt a militant identity in order to assert their basic human rights. They were so successful that women under 50, or even 60, tend to underestimate how bad things really were.

I'm old enough to remember when the very idea of equal opportunity for women was considered radical. As an example, it was not until well into the 1970s that a series of court cases prevented newspapers from dividing employment opportunity classified ads into 'Jobs for Men' and 'Jobs for Women'. But I remember it well, and I remember how infuriating that reality was for feminists, and with what docility most women accepted this kind of discrimination.

I agree with you that there are so many simultaneous human rights issues that identifying with any single one can be limiting or misleading. Still, one can be many things simultaneously, and the general acknowledgement of women's rights as an issue of as much importance as any other was achieved only through great struggle, a struggle that will soon pass from living human memory.

Almost no one self-identifies as an anti- slavery militant anymore. That struggle has almost been won. The same principle applies to feminism.