AOW vs GUE Fundamentals

[AdivingBel]

OK, sorry. Your use of "shun" rang the wrong bells.

Recreational locations in the distant/obscure places have little experience with small-agency cards, and I'd put GUE and UTD as examples. Tech locations are more knowledgable.
Your logbook might help, but I doubt it. It is called a "certification card" for a reason; one can fake their log book much easier than faking a cert card. Best of all, many locations can check you on-line to see that you are real....but not for all agencies.

I read it the same way. Nice answer. (Personally I think you got "Eddie Haskell'd")

 

[Lorenzoid]

At least with regard to the hypothetical dive to 100 feet:

What I took away from the PADI AOW course: I spent a few minutes reading about the potential hazards of diving in the 60-100 feet range, especially with a common Al 80, I did one dive to 100 feet with said Al 80, during which I played with a game and said I didn't feel narc'd, and saw a plastic bottle get crushed. Oh yeah, my takeaway from the AOW course with regard to diving to 100 feet ... I'm really not sure ... but I did do one dive to 100 feet.

What I took away from the GUE Fundies course: Seriously consider not diving to 100 feet on an Al 80. If one is serious about diving in the 100-130 foot range, get advanced training and gear.

Maybe if I were to show up with my Al 80 for a dive to a NC wreck that lies at 110 feet and attempted to show my Fundies card in lieu of an AOW card, they should take the Fundies card away from me. Bad student!

 

[BDSC]

Folks have been diving off the coast of NC for years with aluminum 80's. If you know what you are doing it's not a problem.

 

[scubadada]

At least with regard to the hypothetical dive to 100 feet:

What I took away from the PADI AOW course: I spent a few minutes reading about the potential hazards of diving in the 60-100 feet range, especially with a common Al 80, I did one dive to 100 feet with said Al 80, during which I played with a game and said I didn't feel narc'd, and saw a plastic bottle get crushed. Oh yeah, my takeaway from the AOW course with regard to diving to 100 feet ... I'm really not sure ... but I did do one dive to 100 feet.

What I took away from the GUE Fundies course: Seriously consider not diving to 100 feet on an Al 80. If one is serious about diving in the 100-130 foot range, get advanced training and gear.

Maybe if I were to show up with my Al 80 for a dive to a NC wreck that lies at 110 feet and attempted to show my Fundies card in lieu of an AOW card, they should take the Fundies card away from me. Bad student!

I understand the philosophical differences, this is just way too conservative for me. I dive to 100 feet for 30 minutes on 32% using about 50 cu ft of gas, GUE would have me reserving that volume for the ascent of me and a buddy (that I don't have). Good for some, not for me

 

[Lorenzoid]

Folks have been diving off the coast of NC for years with aluminum 80's. If you know what you are doing it's not a problem.

So what agency/course certifies that "you know what you're doing" for those 100+ feet NC dives on single Al 80s? I'm not questioning your assertion that there are folks who know what they're doing on those dives. My guess is you are referring mainly to folks who have learned by doing, maybe by being mentored, and have not died in the process. It sure isn't the result of a PADI AOW cert, though. Some time after AOW, I took the PADI Deep course in Morehead City, and I sure didn't come away from it believing I was competent to dive there on an Al 80 or even with a sense of what further course to take in the PADI system, since PADI's position on such dives seemed so ambiguous. Heck, during my dives in the Deep course, my instructor carried doubles. It was after that that I decided to look into GUE. Their conservative approach appeals to me. It doesn't appeal to everyone. To each his own level of risk tolerance.

 

[scubadada]

It was after that that I decided to look into GUE. Their conservative approach appeals to me. It doesn't appeal to everyone. To each his own level of risk tolerance.

Exactly, the point

 

[BDSC]

My guess is you are referring mainly to folks who have learned by doing, maybe by being mentored

That's pretty much how I learned a lot about diving. I did get both OW and AOW with PADI and was fortunate to learn from a very good instructor but it was when I hooked up with some of my current dive friends years ago (early 90's) that I learned the most. They were all very experienced divers who had spent many years diving our coast and had 1000's of dives between them. Most of them still dive almost every weekend in the summer there. I think you were spot on when you said folks need to decide their own risk tolerance. I don't think twice about diving off our coast with an AL 80 but I understand why some folks wouldn't want to.

 

[AdivingBel]

Having never dived NC, I don't know the conditions. In the Keys many of the big wrecks sit at 100+ to the main deck and there is an entire industry built around diving them on single tank AL80s. You can dive them shallower in the superstructure, but you can also go 110+ in the holds and to the sand. Most are blown out with light to light swim throughs etc.. While many on SB would say "that's not safe" and there is plenty to back that up, it doesn't represent the reality.

I never really recognized the ambiguity with PADI. Maybe I was just being dense (it's been known to happen) or the way the instructor conducted the course. My understanding was if I'm willing to accept the risk and responsibility for the dive, then 130 ft was my certified limit. Maybe I saw the recommendations as CYA or better yet, wise counsel, but in the end it's on me (or the rules of whatever boat I'm diving from).

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So I am trying to understand this ...

1) Lets say you go to Maldives or Komodo etc with any non-PADI agency C-card like SSI, SDI, NAUI, PSAI etc. Will you turned away exactly like UTD and GUE guys or would the above come under "PADI equivalents" in the world of recreational diving and be accepted?

2) How about technical diving community? Do the tech diving charters all over the world (Truk, Bikini, Scapa Flow) also shun the DIR crowd like the recreational community?

You're juxtaposing responses to multiple different posts.

The "PADI" situation happened to me in one place (Maui, Hawaii) ... by one shop.

The GUE card may or may not be recognized in someplace like Komodo or the Maldives ... but it's not a substitute for a deep diver card. Nothing about GUE Fundamentals even suggests that it's intended as deep training. If you've taken the class you'll know that the majority of the training is done is rather shallow water ... and NONE of it is done below 70 feet.

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that GUE is recognized by tech diving charters the world over ... but tech diving wasn't the subject of this conversation ... AOW or GUE Fundies was. GUE Fundies is NOT tech diving.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added February 23rd, 2015 at 12:00 PM ----------

So basically, the global acceptability factor for GUE/UTD is the same as SDI, SSI and other non-PADIs. In that case, bringing a log book with you should grant you entry on most charters, resorts, liveaboards (unless you are the guy in Bob's Maui story in which case I would be hesitant to dive with the fellow anyways).

Curious ... have you ever been asked by a dive op to show your log book? I haven't ... not anywhere in the world that I've been to so far ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[BDSC]

In the Keys many of the big wrecks sit at 100+ to the main deck and there is an entire industry built around diving them on single tank AL80s.

My very first deep dives were on the Duane and the Bibb. I can't remember which one, but one of them was sitting upright. We would swim in and up the staircase to the next level until we came out near the top. Great dives.