Equipment Trends: The BCD

[Redshift]

There are also people who are into performance but the circumstances won't allow it.
I used to ski a bit but usually 1-2 wks per yr and I have to travel far for the fun. I would love to improve but did/do not have the time and money.
For a vacation diver who done eg. less than 20 dives a yr, performance is the less concern. They want fun.
Perhaps one day when PADI introduce a OW course based solely on BP/W. Then the industry might stand up and take notice.

And why is a BP/W not fun? For me it was a lot more fun! Better adjusted, more balanced, what a difference to have a clear chest... this can be seen as improving performance, but will also make the dive more enjoyable! And the better trim also helps with the swimming and air consumption, leading to... more fun.

There is no reason not to teach a PADI OW course in BP/W and I know shops doing it.

---------- Post added February 21st, 2015 at 09:11 PM ----------

As I start purchasing my first set of equipment I've been into 3-4 dive shops looking around. I'm not counting looking around on-line, of course. If the shops had bp/w rigs, they were hidden behind racks of jackets in most of the shops and no one brought up the subject.

I think many shops and instructors still see BP/W as something for more "advanced" divers. They don't mention it to new divers and expect divers who want it to be the ones asking.

 

[danvolker]

I spent a few days in Key Largo last week, and there was a HUGE scuba store right next to the place I was staying--Divers Direct. It was the biggest scuba-based store I had ever seen in terms of floor space. I went in and checked it out.

Not a single BP/W to be seen anywhere.

Key Largo can be a fun place for some easy diving....the challenges we deal with that we find the bp/wing to offer performance advantage, don't really exist in the Keys.....the kind of boat dives there, don't really offer the bp/wing diver a huge advantage over the Jackets.....So I am not surprised that the bp/wings were not being marketed there......Whenever I have dove there with Spencer Slate, I saw no shock or confusion by divers on the boat about what was different with my gear....so there must be some bp/wing divers that are regulars there....But, you are right, this is not the home of the bp/wing.

Palm Beach ( for recreational and for tech), Pompano/Lauderdale ( for tech), North florida ( for cave)....these are places where the Bp/wing are common. As I think you mentioned previously, at Pompano dive Center, the bp/wing is big with their tech divers--but tech is a small percentage of overall divers.....Palm Beach sees much more of this, because the currents and challenges in 50 to 130 foot deep dives are so much higher in Palm Beach than in Pompano or South of it..At least, this is my best guess on the whys of this.

 

[demed]

What's unbelievable about it is that they constantly drill that if you get in trouble dump weights, dump weights, dump weights, establish positive buoyuancy. And since most of those BC's are sold to new divers, a better part of todays training involves overweighting (plain and simple fact) a lot of divers who get trained and dive within the mainstream agency teachings will be overweighted as a hangover from not long ago when mainstream agencies fell to a low point and good bouyancy skills in OW were about as rare as chicken lips.
Now, before Boulderjohn and a few of the other PADI elite jump my sh-t let me say that I'm sure they are at the forefront of the "new" PADI training protocols where they now have upgraded all the standards and revamped the whole system, but they can't speak for all the shops in every state in every country who still do cattle drives.
My point is, the people these units are targeted for do not necessarily have the skills to stay calm, they may not be using a mask that allows them to put eyes on and view the clips, they may be wearing 5mm gloves that do not allow for them to feel the clips, it might be quite possible that they are overweighted, as seconds go by and they continue to fiddle with clips to get them undone stress will build and the end result could be disastrous, even on the surface. The whole point is weights are supposed to be easy enough to dump that it should be one movement like a swipe of a hand on a weightbelt, not fiddling with clips.
I'm also not a fan at all of integrated weights, I think they are a horrible idea. I'm of the thinking that weights and rig should be separate so in the event that a diver gets entagled underwater they can remove their rig free themselves and replace their S.C.U.B.A. while both the unit and the diver remaining neutral. All the weights in the unit means it's going down and the diver is going up.
To me the whole concept is a true warping of gear evolution and the worst idea ever.

As far as Halcyon going having that system as you say, I don't know, I don't own one piece of Halcyon gear and there are no stores with several hundred miles that carry any of it, if you say they have that then good for Halcyon, I guess they've learned from the best.
I always thought Halcyon was at the fore front of bare bones minimalist concepts? I guess they're fluffing up some of their gear, what's up with that?

How many dives have you done with 25lbs\30lbs\35lbs belts?

How does the diver with weights on remain neutral while removing\replacing gear underwater?

 

[Nemrod]

And why is a BP/W not fun?

Well, they are not colorful and cool and fun to wear. Basic boring black. What's with the black anyways?

 

[Centrals]

And why is a BP/W not fun? For me it was a lot more fun! Better adjusted, more balanced, what a difference to have a clear chest... this can be seen as improving performance, but will also make the dive more enjoyable! And the better trim also helps with the swimming and air consumption, leading to... more fun.
There is no reason not to teach a PADI OW course in BP/W and I know shops doing it.

They can also have fun with the jacket which is one thing that they are probably familiar with.
What those shops do are to be admired but it won't make a ripple in the ocean.
But if a agency eg. PADI comes out with this idea. Can you imagine if all PADI 5* training centres are required to teach ow by either BP/W or jacket.

 

[Redshift]

Well, they are not colorful and cool and fun to wear. Basic boring black. What's with the black anyways?

Black is the best colour! But for those less style conscious, Halcyon, for example, has plenty of other colours.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Black is the best colour! But for those less style conscious, Halcyon, for example, has plenty of other colours.

And as I mentioned above, if a shiny metal backplate isn't attractive, the less style conscious can find them in black and red (HOG), and then there is colored harness webbing.

 

[Nemrod]

Black is the best colour! But for those less style conscious, Halcyon, for example, has plenty of other colours.

Do they have one in tie-dye? With matching fins and mask and wetsuit? I am actually a hippie just pretending to be a conservative white guy .

You seem to miss the point, many manufactures have specific pieces which can be color coordinated, Atomic, AL, SP, Mares, whoever, all of the mainline companies have entire sets that have a theme from fins to mask to BC to wetsuit.

And all you got is black, how boring. No fun there at all. Whats with the black anyways?

I was digging around when I was back home and found some old jeans, belled and low rise. Then I bought me some tie dye tee shirts. And they are actually 60s/70s length, down to the top of the hip bones instead of todays ghetto length to cover the saggies and large butts. Now I just need some Jesus/gladiator tire tread sandals and I will be hip again, oh, and grow my hair back out. Tubular. I might be a hippie but I never said I was PC.

I have been thinking about this a long time recently, is less more or is more less?

N

 

[danvolker]

Do they have one in tie-dye? With matching fins and mask and wetsuit? I am actually a hippie just pretending to be a conservative white guy .

You seem to miss the point, many manufactures have specific pieces which can be color coordinated, Atomic, AL, SP, Mares, whoever, all of the mainline companies have entire sets that have a theme from fins to mask to BC to wetsuit.

And all you got is black, how boring. No fun there at all. Whats with the black anyways?

I was digging around when I was back home and found some old jeans, belled and low rise. Then I bought me some tie dye tee shirts. And they are actually 60s/70s length, down to the top of the hip bones instead of todays ghetto length to cover the saggies and large butts. Now I just need some Jesus/gladiator tire tread sandals and I will be hip again, oh, and grow my hair back out. Tubular. I might be a hippie but I never said I was PC.

I have been thinking about this a long time recently, is less more or is more less?

N

I have seen Halcyon wings on some girls that were pink....TSandM might even have one of these....I have also seen a few yellow Halcyon wings....And if you don't like the stainless steel plate color, you can have it anodized to have many cool colors and looks.
However....the basic Black wing goes with anything....so you can have a wetsuit in blue or camp, or yum yum yellow...or anything....add fins in any of dozens of colors....as much as I don't care too much about the colors, I don't see the issue....
My wetsuit is camo theme though
Fins are blue.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

What's unbelievable about it is that they constantly drill that if you get in trouble dump weights, dump weights, dump weights, establish positive buoyuancy. And since most of those BC's are sold to new divers, a better part of todays training involves overweighting (plain and simple fact) a lot of divers who get trained and dive within the mainstream agency teachings will be overweighted as a hangover from not long ago when mainstream agencies fell to a low point and good bouyancy skills in OW were about as rare as chicken lips.
Now, before Boulderjohn and a few of the other PADI elite jump my sh-t let me say that I'm sure they are at the forefront of the "new" PADI training protocols where they now have upgraded all the standards and revamped the whole system, but they can't speak for all the shops in every state in every country who still do cattle drives.
My point is, the people these units are targeted for do not necessarily have the skills to stay calm, they may not be using a mask that allows them to put eyes on and view the clips, they may be wearing 5mm gloves that do not allow for them to feel the clips, it might be quite possible that they are overweighted, as seconds go by and they continue to fiddle with clips to get them undone stress will build and the end result could be disastrous, even on the surface. The whole point is weights are supposed to be easy enough to dump that it should be one movement like a swipe of a hand on a weightbelt, not fiddling with clips.
I'm also not a fan at all of integrated weights, I think they are a horrible idea. I'm of the thinking that weights and rig should be separate so in the event that a diver gets entagled underwater they can remove their rig free themselves and replace their S.C.U.B.A. while both the unit and the diver remaining neutral. All the weights in the unit means it's going down and the diver is going up.
To me the whole concept is a true warping of gear evolution and the worst idea ever.

As far as Halcyon going having that system as you say, I don't know, I don't own one piece of Halcyon gear and there are no stores with several hundred miles that carry any of it, if you say they have that then good for Halcyon, I guess they've learned from the best.
I always thought Halcyon was at the fore front of bare bones minimalist concepts? I guess they're fluffing up some of their gear, what's up with that?

The clips are not complicated and the risk is offset by not risking inadvertent loss of a pocket and the resulting potential for a runaway ascent. As for Halcyon "fluffing up some of their gear" they've definitely been doing that - but the weight pockets system with clips has had iterations going almost as far back as their basic system. The major change now (and a good one) is they orient them such that the pocket is less likely to fall out and dangle by the clip in trim, but falls straight out when the diver is vertical (the more likely position for someone desperately trying to dump weight I would guess).