Why do you think LDS should change their sales approach!
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Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
"Why do you think LDS should change their sales approach"
Because the old approach isn't working any more.
The next time you're in a store buying something, and not a Target or some such store, but a specialty purchase...I don't know...like a fine shoe store or a jewelery store or a good sporting goods store. Pay special attention to the help you get. You know how sometimes you run across a sales person that just seems to be special, something about them makes you feel good about what you're doing. Whether it's natural or trained or both that doesn't matter, just study them and see if you can identify what it is that sets them apart.
Whan I was selling cars and trucks, some of the industry was in a transitional period from the good ol boy hard sell, cheap suit, sleazo type typical car salesman as what you'd think of in stereo typical sense, to a much more honest, find out what they want and fill that need type aproach. The dealership I started with was a big brand new facility and the owner was a younger guy who went to a few of the new seminars on new cutting edge philosophies on sales and management (this is late 80's).
Part of the problem he was having was he kind of had to hire a bunch of older crusty slaes managers that were from the old school because that's all that was out there that had any knowledge of the car business at upper level, and most of his sales team on the floor was younger people, some with no experience. So what was happening was the older managers were trying to teach the younger sales staff to pull all sorts of tricky sleazy stuff on customers and it became a conflict of interests of what the owner wanted to achieve.
That's when sales classes began and everything they taught us was completely different than what the old guard had been doing for years.
I remember a few of the old guys getting so pissed they walked out after an argument.
Most of them ended up moving on or getting let go. It was so ingrained there was no changing them.
One of the things I learned was that people and potential customers aren't as stupid as some people believe. They aren't just a herd of mindless cattle. Some of the old guys were of the thinking that most people were just idiots and if you knew how to do it you could sell them anything, they were like putty in your hands. Not true, that's a good way to piss people off by insulting their inteligence and disgusting them.
Just think of people as yourself and ask how you would like to be treated and if you are a stupid herd cow. There's no difference between them and you, in fact a lot of them are probably smarter than you.
All of this can be directly transfered to a dive shop. Diving is a high end specialty activity and deserves that sort of respect in choosing and educating your sales staff.
And then of course the whole location thing, which is almost a thread on itself.
Instead of trying to find the one silver bullet that going to magically save diving like a massive orchestrated sales campaign, which would be fine, but what do you do when they come into the store in some remote part of town with the same unengaging people standing there....what, same old?
I think maybe it's time to revamp what we have first then build from there.
At least this is something that can be put into play right now without a lot of $$$ invested.
Because the old approach isn't working any more.
The next time you're in a store buying something, and not a Target or some such store, but a specialty purchase...I don't know...like a fine shoe store or a jewelery store or a good sporting goods store. Pay special attention to the help you get. You know how sometimes you run across a sales person that just seems to be special, something about them makes you feel good about what you're doing. Whether it's natural or trained or both that doesn't matter, just study them and see if you can identify what it is that sets them apart.
Whan I was selling cars and trucks, some of the industry was in a transitional period from the good ol boy hard sell, cheap suit, sleazo type typical car salesman as what you'd think of in stereo typical sense, to a much more honest, find out what they want and fill that need type aproach. The dealership I started with was a big brand new facility and the owner was a younger guy who went to a few of the new seminars on new cutting edge philosophies on sales and management (this is late 80's).
Part of the problem he was having was he kind of had to hire a bunch of older crusty slaes managers that were from the old school because that's all that was out there that had any knowledge of the car business at upper level, and most of his sales team on the floor was younger people, some with no experience. So what was happening was the older managers were trying to teach the younger sales staff to pull all sorts of tricky sleazy stuff on customers and it became a conflict of interests of what the owner wanted to achieve.
That's when sales classes began and everything they taught us was completely different than what the old guard had been doing for years.
I remember a few of the old guys getting so pissed they walked out after an argument.
Most of them ended up moving on or getting let go. It was so ingrained there was no changing them.
One of the things I learned was that people and potential customers aren't as stupid as some people believe. They aren't just a herd of mindless cattle. Some of the old guys were of the thinking that most people were just idiots and if you knew how to do it you could sell them anything, they were like putty in your hands. Not true, that's a good way to piss people off by insulting their inteligence and disgusting them.
Just think of people as yourself and ask how you would like to be treated and if you are a stupid herd cow. There's no difference between them and you, in fact a lot of them are probably smarter than you.
All of this can be directly transfered to a dive shop. Diving is a high end specialty activity and deserves that sort of respect in choosing and educating your sales staff.
And then of course the whole location thing, which is almost a thread on itself.
Instead of trying to find the one silver bullet that going to magically save diving like a massive orchestrated sales campaign, which would be fine, but what do you do when they come into the store in some remote part of town with the same unengaging people standing there....what, same old?
I think maybe it's time to revamp what we have first then build from there.
At least this is something that can be put into play right now without a lot of $$$ invested.
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Careful, if you're going to be "salesy", then I'm not listening to you. I have a sensitive BS meter and hate being sold for the sale.
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
That's exactly the key right there. A good salesperson has the ability to be a great presenter without any direct appearance of an alterior motive or hidden agenda... but let's face it, it takes money to exsist. The money needs to be thought of almost as a by product of something bigger, and that is the important needs and happiness/satisfaction of the customer. The client wants to be made whole somehow, they came in for a reason, they have a need and the void that they came in to fill needs to be satisfied, if that makes sense. You need to tune in their emotions like a radio station and be able to know where they're coming from and what they want, then communicate on that level.
Helping people fullfill themselves is your number one priority, and the money you get paid for those services is simply a by-product. That's how you have to think of it, and people pick up on that.
A good salesperson identifies the needs of the customer, shows the customer everything they want and need to know about the product, then shuts up and lets the customer sell the item to themselves. Big difference between that and the mentality of "I'm not letting them leave until they buy something" with hard pressure all the way up to the point that the customer runs out the door.
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don't play the "shop should be run by tech instructors because they know more" (and you think they will be ethical)... There is a shop near me that is run be a very technical individual. i watched him one day work a customer by showing him a lowest budget BC, explain the weaknesses (okay, cool), then show them a DSS rig (nice!) and then lament on how horribly uncomfortable this thing would be (heading south....), and then walk the individual over to the "Big Blue H" (with all the padding , bells etc.) for the up sell..... Poor SOB ate it......
same shop that, back some time ago was a SP dealer.... switched to the "H" line, bashing what they carried for 25 years.... In a polite conversation one day, i inquired as to the new line in the dive industry (HOG). "Low priced, poorly made, low tolerance junk" were his words. Three years later, the same individual has added that line....
Sorry, the whole damn thing just stinks....
bottom line - salesmen cannot be trusted
same shop that, back some time ago was a SP dealer.... switched to the "H" line, bashing what they carried for 25 years.... In a polite conversation one day, i inquired as to the new line in the dive industry (HOG). "Low priced, poorly made, low tolerance junk" were his words. Three years later, the same individual has added that line....
Sorry, the whole damn thing just stinks....
bottom line - salesmen cannot be trusted
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
Yeah I know, I've seen it myself, it sucks. Those aren't good sales people, those are schmucks and unfortunately retail in all walks is full of them.
We have a shop around here that was selling split fins to freedivers for ab diving (lol) saying thery had unmatched power, they were the latest greatest, etc. They bashed long fins for being "wannabe, hard on the legs, too long to be any good in our waters, blah, blah, blah"
So a couple years later the same guy who was telling people all that goes to a freediving seminar and then becomes a freediving instructor. And yes you guessed it, long fins are now the best thing ever.
I was raised in retail. My grandfather owned a grocery store. Same location for nearly 40 years after he came back from WWII. His father owned one when they first came over from Italy in the late 1800's. At six I was running the cash register and learning to deal with customers. At 8 I was slicing lunch meat and cutting up chickens for people. At 14 I had people who would only come in on the days I was the butcher. All of them for the same reason.
I gave them what they wanted. That was what my grandfather taught me was the way to deal with customers. Along with they were always right, except when they weren't but you didn't voice that. You stayed polite, did your best to meet their needs and if you couldn't, and this was the key, you tried to help them by making an honest effort to obtain what they wanted OR send them to your competition if you knew they had it.
If you had a reasonable substitute you offered it but never pressured anyone into trying it. If it cost a little more, you gave it to them for the price of what they wanted. You never upsell unless it truly is an actual improvement over what they want and you can fully explain why. To try and upsell in order to better your bottom line is immoral, unethical, and just plain greedy. When I walk into a shop of any kind I usually know what I want, or have a good idea and am open to suggestions, and I most likely have a budget in mind. I find most people do.
Sometimes it's obvious when I get a request for a quote on gear. The buyer has done their homework and I am not going to insult their effort.
Sometimes it's implied by their questions so I start off with the lowest priced item that will meet their needs and unless they start asking don't bother to offer more expensive alternatives. If they open the door with a question like "Would I get more performance, use, wider range, etc. out of the next most expensive thing" then I offer my opinions. But I never hesitate to say "for the type of diving you plan to do, no. There will be no real added benefit." If there won't be.
When it's not clear my first question is always what type of diving do you do? Then "Where do you see yourself in a year, two years, etc? Then before I make any recommendation I ask "what's your budget and do my best to work with that.
When I walk into any place that acts like I am nothing more than a wallet it becomes clear very fast and just as fast I walk out the door. I got snookered a few times early on. Talked into buying stuff that is now laying in a box or drawer, Never to see the light of day again and I'm not morally ok with passing it on to someone else. At the same time I was not discouraged from buying crap either.
A number of my customers will tell you I have said to them "You don't really need that now." Or "You don't need it at all." Along with " I'd love to sell you this, but frankly you don't really need it. Take the money and go diving instead."
Sales is not about making money. Sales is about providing a service and meeting the needs of your customers. Do that and the money will come.
I gave them what they wanted. That was what my grandfather taught me was the way to deal with customers. Along with they were always right, except when they weren't but you didn't voice that. You stayed polite, did your best to meet their needs and if you couldn't, and this was the key, you tried to help them by making an honest effort to obtain what they wanted OR send them to your competition if you knew they had it.
If you had a reasonable substitute you offered it but never pressured anyone into trying it. If it cost a little more, you gave it to them for the price of what they wanted. You never upsell unless it truly is an actual improvement over what they want and you can fully explain why. To try and upsell in order to better your bottom line is immoral, unethical, and just plain greedy. When I walk into a shop of any kind I usually know what I want, or have a good idea and am open to suggestions, and I most likely have a budget in mind. I find most people do.
Sometimes it's obvious when I get a request for a quote on gear. The buyer has done their homework and I am not going to insult their effort.
Sometimes it's implied by their questions so I start off with the lowest priced item that will meet their needs and unless they start asking don't bother to offer more expensive alternatives. If they open the door with a question like "Would I get more performance, use, wider range, etc. out of the next most expensive thing" then I offer my opinions. But I never hesitate to say "for the type of diving you plan to do, no. There will be no real added benefit." If there won't be.
When it's not clear my first question is always what type of diving do you do? Then "Where do you see yourself in a year, two years, etc? Then before I make any recommendation I ask "what's your budget and do my best to work with that.
When I walk into any place that acts like I am nothing more than a wallet it becomes clear very fast and just as fast I walk out the door. I got snookered a few times early on. Talked into buying stuff that is now laying in a box or drawer, Never to see the light of day again and I'm not morally ok with passing it on to someone else. At the same time I was not discouraged from buying crap either.
A number of my customers will tell you I have said to them "You don't really need that now." Or "You don't need it at all." Along with " I'd love to sell you this, but frankly you don't really need it. Take the money and go diving instead."
Sales is not about making money. Sales is about providing a service and meeting the needs of your customers. Do that and the money will come.
victorzamora
Contributor
The only local shop to me was trying to sell me these gigantic non-canister primaries. He told me anybody still diving canister was an effing idiot and deserved to drowned. Same thing about sidemount. He wanted me to trash my sidemount stuff AND brand new Bobby light AND brand new Petrel to dive the "vastly superior" products he was selling. He talked trash about my instructor, the caves I was diving, the fins I was using, etc. Tried selling me some $250 Seawing Nova Gorilla things, new tanks, new valves, two new computers, and 3xPrimary lights....all to the tune of 30% more than online prices. I purchased a pack of dive log refills, smiled politely, and bowed-out. The shop that takes my money now undersells me on things I was too excited about while rarely upselling. It's a very different vibe, and that shop has taken ALL of my money. The local shop has gotten exactly what they've earned from me: Squat.
Jim Lapenta
You have earned my respect yet again.
You have earned my respect yet again.
ams511
Contributor
How is the local dive shop going to save scuba diving? I think you are giving them too much influence. People aren't getting into diving because it is an expensive hobby and real incomes are down. People have better things to spend their money on. Also there are no underwater shows like Jacques Cousteau who showed the beauty of the ocean. Instead we have Discovery Channel's crap Shark Week and River Monsters which sensationalize and over dramatize the viciousness of sea life. People think if they jump in the water they are going to be attacked by a great white or a giant squid.
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