Fatality at Jersey Island

[gobfish1]

My point is that an unconscious diver submerged underwater will drown.

The airway is compromised and I see it no other way.

The solution to that is to have some equipment and systems, and procedures, and controls to prevent that.

The equipment is the Draeger Crown Strap (Hollis won't mind if you put a non-Hollis mouthpiece on the rebbie) and a BOV (can be Hollis).

Systems, procedure, and controls is a topic in its own.

What is your point?

gags and straps are all well and good but not much use if you dont have a buddy , plus we are going over old ground with this its all been said be4.

 

[HIGHwing]

Rebreather blamed for Jillian Smith death in Jersey C.I.



Let's take a look at this "visualization". I do not believe the error was influenced by gender.

Note: P2 Graphic was used and modified without permission from Hollis for educational purposes.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

My point is that an unconscious diver submerged underwater will drown.

The airway is compromised and I see it no other way.

The solution to that is to have some equipment and systems, and procedures, and controls to prevent that.

The equipment is the Draeger Crown Strap (Hollis won't mind if you put a non-Hollis mouthpiece on the rebbie) and a BOV (can be Hollis).

Systems, procedure, and controls is a topic in its own.

What is your point?

The point is that the buddy is critical in the survival of the unconscious diver. Loss of buddy contact was one of the root causes of this fatality. Note that "causes" is plural; usually in these kinds of situations, there are more than one "root cause." My question was about a buddy line maintaining buddy contact in poor visibility. You seem to think that would have resulted in multiple drownings; my contention is that there may have been no drowning if buddy contact had been maintained.

I like using the Draeger Crown Strap to ensure that the mouthpiece stayed in place. A mouthpiece strap saved Fred Roberts life in May 29, 1953 in a tank dive to test a new regulator design, and blacked out on air at a depth of around 360 feet (Roberts, Fred, Basic Scuba, D. Van Nostrand Company, Inc., Prinston, New Jersey, 1963, pages 421-425). Here is part of his account:

...I still thought I was somewhere around 360 feet, since that was where I last saw the needle on the depth gauge when I moved to the ladder. THEN THERE WAS NOTHING! The men outside saw that my head was bowed. My muscles twitched violently as I hung onto the ladder. The pressure gauge read 165 pounds per square inch, the last pressure reading recorded by the tape recorder--a pressure equivalent to that experienced at a depth of 380 feet...

...MY BLACKOUT CAME WITH ABSOLUTELY NO WARNING. There was no physical unpleasantness connected with it--I was conscious one moment, and unconscious the next...

...For some reason, all at once I could not seem to get enough air to breathe1. My lungs felt as though they were on fire and I had the urge to open my mouth wide and take deep breaths. Fortunately this sensation did not last too long, and I had fastened my mouthpiece around my head and in my mouth so hard that the corners of my mouth were stretched over the edges, and this would not possibly allow me to open my mouth. Finally the sensation was gone and I could breathe easily again..."

But he was on open circuit (OC) scuba, and did not contend with hypercapnea, as was the diagnosis with this accident.

I'm sure the Draeger Crown Strap would have helped here for Jullian Smith, especially with a BOV, but the buddy still needed to be there too to avert the fatality.

SeaRat

 

[Ayisha]

We know she actually drowned in her own fluids (my understanding).

Could that possibly be referring to IPE (Immersion Pulmonary Edema)? IPE can also be described as drowning in your own fluids...

 

[KevinNM]

Could that possibly be referring to IPE (Immersion Pulmonary Edema)? IPE can also be described as drowning in your own fluids...

Someone quoted the autopsy, which said it was stomach contents subsequent to loss of consciousness.

 

[MatthewAddison]

BUT she did her 5 minute pre-breathe

She could not have done a pre-breathe as the system as configured would not have passed a properly done pre-breathe. Breathing on a loop for 5 minutes while standing knee deep in water and not passing out is not an accepted pre-breathe by anyone's definition.



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[gianaameri]

She could not have done a pre-breathe as the system as configured would not have passed a properly done pre-breathe. Breathing on a loop for 5 minutes while standing knee deep in water and not passing out is not an accepted pre-breathe by anyone's definition.



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• The pre-breather checks carried out on land by Mrs Smith were for 5 minutes (believed to be manufacturers recommended time) and this would have been insufficient time for the build-up of CO2 to be recognised by Mrs Smith. 10 minutes might have been more appropriate.

Going to sleep now.

 

[HIGHwing]

You missed Matt's point. The Pre-Breathe would not have passed - he never said she didn't do it.

 

[gianaameri]

You missed Matt's point. The Pre-Breathe would not have passed - he never said she didn't do it.

"would not have passed" ???

It passed present two other rebreather divers.

She went diving and 3 minutes later she stopped moving.

 

[HIGHwing]

We're going to agree to disagree.