Equipment package

[tbone1004]

I'd argue that that package is worse than the first one.....

http://www.diverightinscuba.com/catalog/
The 12mos 0% is nice, I'll give you that, but no reason to buy inferior gear.

http://www.diverightinscuba.com/catalog/techequipmentpackages-drisdivegear-28lbbpwsystem-p-3070.html $500 if you go for the fancy comfy harness and backpad, not needed but if you're diving without a wetsuit regularly it's nice. No service needed on this stuff at all, not much to go wrong really and you can take 10lbs of lead off of your weight belt, nice perk.

http://www.diverightinscuba.com/cat...ggear-d1singlesregulatorpackagewspg-html.html
$480 with upgrades to the braided hoses, and a DIN-Yoke adapter so you can dive yoke tanks. If you're mechanically inclined you can learn to service them yourself, if not there's plenty of shops around there that will service them or send them back to DRiS.

This stuff with the exception of the wing since it's a singles wing, will last you the rest of your diving career regardless if if you stay OW, or go through cave/trimix/rebreather diving, the packages you've listed will not.

They don't have the DG03 on their website, so you might have to get that from DGX, but it is worth asking if they have it.

So those three come up to right around the same $1250 for gear that has better resale value and is just better gear that will last longer, mainly the BC, regs are regs are regs, so not much difference there, but a BP/W will last you longer than the stab jackets, and taking 10lbs off of the weight belt is almost never a bad thing.

---------- Post added September 23rd, 2014 at 08:48 AM ----------

I'd argue that that package is worse than the first one.....

Discount Scuba Gear - Dive Right in Scuba
The 12mos 0% is nice, I'll give you that, but no reason to buy inferior gear.

DRIS Dive Gear 28lb BP/W System | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL - Dive Right in Scuba $500 if you go for the fancy comfy harness and backpad, not needed but if you're diving without a wetsuit regularly it's nice. No service needed on this stuff at all, not much to go wrong really and you can take 10lbs of lead off of your weight belt, nice perk.

Hog D1 Singles Regulator Package w/ SPG - Dive Right in Scuba
$480 with upgrades to the braided hoses, and a DIN-Yoke adapter so you can dive yoke tanks. If you're mechanically inclined you can learn to service them yourself, if not there's plenty of shops around there that will service them or send them back to DRiS.

This stuff with the exception of the wing since it's a singles wing, will last you the rest of your diving career regardless if if you stay OW, or go through cave/trimix/rebreather diving, the packages you've listed will not.

They don't have the DG03 on their website, so you might have to get that from DGX, but it is worth asking if they have it.

So those three come up to right around the same $1250 for gear that has better resale value and is just better gear that will last longer, mainly the BC, regs are regs are regs, so not much difference there, but a BP/W will last you longer than the stab jackets, and taking 10lbs off of the weight belt is almost never a bad thing.


Edit, you can't save on shipping, and it looks like you can't upgrade the harness if you want to, though if you're in a wetsuit you don't have to, but.

http://www.amazon.com/DRIS-Dive-Gea...DBIO/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A2ETG17VYZDK56 they are selling through amazon

Amazon.com : Hog D1 Singles Regulator Package w/ SPG : Sports & Outdoors

I don't believe you get the loyalty points through amazon, and that usually amounts to 10% of online orders and you have to pay for shipping, but if you really want to go through amazon, go that route.

 

[Kairoos]

I'd argue that that package is worse than the first one.....

Discount Scuba Gear - Dive Right in Scuba
The 12mos 0% is nice, I'll give you that, but no reason to buy inferior gear.

DRIS Dive Gear 28lb BP/W System | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL - Dive Right in Scuba $500 if you go for the fancy comfy harness and backpad, not needed but if you're diving without a wetsuit regularly it's nice. No service needed on this stuff at all, not much to go wrong really and you can take 10lbs of lead off of your weight belt, nice perk.

Hog D1 Singles Regulator Package w/ SPG - Dive Right in Scuba
$480 with upgrades to the braided hoses, and a DIN-Yoke adapter so you can dive yoke tanks. If you're mechanically inclined you can learn to service them yourself, if not there's plenty of shops around there that will service them or send them back to DRiS.

This stuff with the exception of the wing since it's a singles wing, will last you the rest of your diving career regardless if if you stay OW, or go through cave/trimix/rebreather diving, the packages you've listed will not.

They don't have the DG03 on their website, so you might have to get that from DGX, but it is worth asking if they have it.

So those three come up to right around the same $1250 for gear that has better resale value and is just better gear that will last longer, mainly the BC, regs are regs are regs, so not much difference there, but a BP/W will last you longer than the stab jackets, and taking 10lbs off of the weight belt is almost never a bad thing.

---------- Post added September 23rd, 2014 at 08:48 AM ----------

I'd argue that that package is worse than the first one.....

Discount Scuba Gear - Dive Right in Scuba
The 12mos 0% is nice, I'll give you that, but no reason to buy inferior gear.

DRIS Dive Gear 28lb BP/W System | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL - Dive Right in Scuba $500 if you go for the fancy comfy harness and backpad, not needed but if you're diving without a wetsuit regularly it's nice. No service needed on this stuff at all, not much to go wrong really and you can take 10lbs of lead off of your weight belt, nice perk.

Hog D1 Singles Regulator Package w/ SPG - Dive Right in Scuba
$480 with upgrades to the braided hoses, and a DIN-Yoke adapter so you can dive yoke tanks. If you're mechanically inclined you can learn to service them yourself, if not there's plenty of shops around there that will service them or send them back to DRiS.

This stuff with the exception of the wing since it's a singles wing, will last you the rest of your diving career regardless if if you stay OW, or go through cave/trimix/rebreather diving, the packages you've listed will not.

They don't have the DG03 on their website, so you might have to get that from DGX, but it is worth asking if they have it.

So those three come up to right around the same $1250 for gear that has better resale value and is just better gear that will last longer, mainly the BC, regs are regs are regs, so not much difference there, but a BP/W will last you longer than the stab jackets, and taking 10lbs off of the weight belt is almost never a bad thing.


Edit, you can't save on shipping, and it looks like you can't upgrade the harness if you want to, though if you're in a wetsuit you don't have to, but.

http://www.amazon.com/DRIS-Dive-Gea...DBIO/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A2ETG17VYZDK56 they are selling through amazon

Amazon.com : Hog D1 Singles Regulator Package w/ SPG : Sports & Outdoors

I don't believe you get the loyalty points through amazon, and that usually amounts to 10% of online orders and you have to pay for shipping, but if you really want to go through amazon, go that route.

That BC does look nice. I was hoping I could finance some or all of the equipment, but I'm okay with purchasing it outright for better quality products.

I will say I am surprised you said this package was worse than the other one, Subgear/ScubaPro seem to always be highly recommended on these forums.

I was also considering the Aqua Lung reg, either the Legend or Titan LX.

 

[tbone1004]

just because it was $300 more and had a worse computer and nothing really special about the regs or bc to make it worth the extra $300, so as a package deal it is worse, doesn't mean the equipment is lesser quality, just not getting anything extra for the extra money.

 

[stuartv]

Atomic is a perfect example. They are some of the most expensive regs on the market, but performance and quality is no better than regs half their cost. *Atomic is about 2.5x the cost of Hog, and almost 2x the cost of Hollis*Hollis/Oceanic are basically the same as the regs from DiveRite, Hog, and a few others, and they are significantly more expensive, though DiveRite is starting to catch up in price. Their ltd lifetime warranty is based on number of dives or 2 years and has to be serviced by a tech, so that adds even more to the cost, whereas the same warranty is there on Hog with nothing mentioned about service. Hollis regs and wings are no better than the Hog equivalents, yet are consistently 1.5x the cost, based solely on having to handle the marketing budget of the companies, which is MASSIVE. Hog doesn't advertise, DiveRite doesn't really advertise, they have higher overhead than Hog, but it's nothing compared to Aqualung, Scubapro, Atomic, Oceanic etc.

tbone, I'm just about in the same boat as the OP. New and starting to figure out what I should start saving my pennies for.

Looking at LeisurePro prices and reviews, magazine reviews, etc,., one could easily conclude that high end Atomic and Scuba Pro regs are the best regs you can buy.

You mentioned that Hog, DiveRite and "a few others" are just as good for less money. I looked at the website one of y'all posted with Hog stuff. Haven't looked at DiveRite yet. But, can you rattle off any others that you know of?

And so I am clear, you're saying the best Hog/DiveRite/other reg is just as good as a high end Atomic or Scuba Pro? Or, do you mean, so good that the others may be a little better/nicer, but not enough so to be worth the big extra bucks?

And, by just as good, what I think that means is:

- WOB is just as low
- ergonomics are just as comfortable
- reliability is just as good (in all types of conditions)
- serviceability is just as good (i.e. whatever breaks CAN be fixed and generally just as easily)

 

[tbone1004]

WOB- you aren't going to notice, they all deliver so much air that computers have trouble telling. The rest is determined by the service tech that serviced it. I can take a $500 Atomic second stage and a $100 Hog Classic and make the hog breathe better than the Atomic, it's not that hard.

Ergonomics are very personal, so hose routing and the feel of the housing is purely personal preference. I dive Poseidon Jetstreams because I like them more than any other reg out there, but it is very different than any other reg on the market. They all feel about the same in the mouth

Reliability-every brand has had bad parts kits come through. HOG, Apeks, Scubapro, Diverite, Poseidon, Atomic, they've all had a bad batch of parts kits which cause the regs to fail, it sucks but it's the nature of the beast. They are all pretty stable, and the big thing is finding one with a lifetime warranty not based on service schedules. Hog, Atomic, DiveRite I think are all like this.

Servicing is pretty much the same, availability of parts kits and technicians is the key. Poseidon has a horrid reputation for their US distribution and servicing them is a little finicky. The rest of the lot follow the same basic design principle so if you can service an Apeks reg, you can service Atomic, HOG, DiveRite, most Scubapros etc.


You noticed by looking at Leisurepro, magazines etc, that one could conclude Atomic and SP are the best. That reason is because they market the living sh!t out of them and that shows in their cost. The Scubalab results are decent benchmarks, but it's all computer simulations nothing that a human could discern.

When I'm in the market for regs, it's always the marketplace on here and the other forums for used stuff first, then wait until Black Friday when Mike at DiveRightinScuba and Edd from Cave Adventurers go completely berzerk with their pricing and practically give the HOG's away. I'm a tech diver so I require that parts are available to me easily so I can service them myself. Luckily I have friends that can get me Poseidon parts when I need them, but HOG and DiveRite make their parts kits readily available because they know their primary customers are like me and demand parts availability for their own gear. This is formed out of necessity because I can have a complete failure of one of my regulators and fix it on the boat during a SIT and not lose a dive because of it.

High price, lots of marketing doesn't mean better, especially in this industry. There is a balance between what is junk and what is good in the price point, but law of diminishing returns hits really hard shortly thereafter. DiveRite is cresting that point right now, but they are following Hollis' pricing trends since they are their closest thing to a "Real" competitor. HOG is just making everyone mad with their pricing, but it's working.

The gear I suggested for the OP from Dive Right in Scuba is still bar none the best bang for the buck in new gear on the market today. Nothing can come close to it as far as price/performance. Sure you can find a little nicer wing that might last 20% longer, but you'll pay twice as much for it. You'll also likely find a reg that is a little bit better, but you'll pay twice as much for that, so is it worth it? No. I said above I prefer Poseidons, I genuinely do, but I get them for super cheap on ebay. Last set I bought was $260 for two firsts and two seconds with SPG's on each. I had to rebuild them, but it's a lot cheaper than the $1k that they cost new. I have bought all of my HOG's brand new, and those live on deco and stage bottles so they get used regularly and I do like them, I just like my Jetstreams....

 

[Kairoos]

As far as LeisurePro goes, don't buy any Aqua Lung gear from them, since they're not an authorized dealer. So I would definitely check they're an authorized dealer of a brand before you order something there!

I really liked scubadiving.com's reviews. On regulators they put them through a machine test, and then test them out in the water. I'm not sure if they hold any brand bias at all, but their reviews seemed very informative! Honestly coming from some other hobbies I found the lack of reviews disappointing. With all the different brands of gear out there and the popularity of these forums, I was expecting tons of review threads on here. In the reef keeping and motorcycle hobbies any product you're interested in, you can easily find tons of user reviews!

I ended up purchasing a kit with:
Zeagle Express Tech Deluxe BCD
Zeagle Onyx (CW) Regulator
Zeagle Octo-Z
Oceanic SPG
and an Aeris A300 wrist dive computer.


I have two LDS within a 10 minute drive that service Zeagle parts and all the equipment is highly regarded, both on here, and on scubadiving.com. Although I'm not 100% sure how I feel about inflator/octo combos. Guy at my LDS loves them, and the dive instructor in my OW class used one on his personal equipment. It is one less hose to worry about, so I'm going to give it a try! The Onyx regulator seems very well regarded, and I'm happy to have my dive computer as a watch.

Honestly it seems like you can't go wrong with all the popular brands. People seem to hold some strong brand bias. Only products that I've read on here (and at my LDS) to stay away from are Cressi regulators.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Leisure Pro would be the first place I'd go for Aqualung gear. Because they are not an authorized dealer I can call them up and talk them into a screaming deal. They don't have to worry about losing their authorized status over not charging me an inflated fixed price. Not being an authorized dealer only means I have to take advantage of their in house warranty. Which is just as good as AL's. And since I would not be sending regs or any other gear in for service until it actually needed it the warranty/free parts is meaningless anyway. Most likely I would not be sending it in any way. I'd find a source for parts and take care of it myself. The warranty is really only valid and worth something in the case of a recall. Like on their weight pockets that have recently gotten one. I'd like to see them deny me one if I had a BC that was affected because I got it from LP. One call to the Consumer Product Safety Commission and a few posts to Facebook would likely have one at my door in short order.

 

[Colliam7]

Honestly coming from some other hobbies I found the lack of reviews disappointing. With all the different brands of gear out there and the popularity of these forums, I was expecting tons of review threads on here.

The problem with so-called 'reviews' - of diving gear as well as other recreational equipment - is that they are generally quite subjective, and seldom comprehensive. For regulators, as one example, there are any number of very good units on the market and the differences are relatively small, among units in each of the three primary 'categories': entry level, mid-level, and high end. Most divers find that a good mid-level regulator is fine for all recreational diving needs, and the selection of a Zeagle, over an Apeks, over an XXX often comes down to the particular 'deal' or strong personal bias.

I ended up purchasing a kit with:
Zeagle Express Tech Deluxe BCD
Zeagle Onyx (CW) Regulator
Zeagle Octo-Z
Oceanic SPG
and an Aeris A300 wrist dive computer.

Good kit for the most part. I presume you liked the Onyx in part because of the very favorable 2013 ScubaLabs review on scubadiving.com. It is a good regulator, which will serve you well. Out of curiosity, how does it compare with, say, the Zeagle DS-V? Well, that's a tough call, because the DS-V has been around for over 10 years, and was actually 'reviewed' way back in 2003. It delivers essentially the same performance as an Onyx, but is a more 'mature' model, and costs $100 less - hence my comment about reviews, which often primarily compare 'current' models. I have several DS-Vs, and find they perform well at depth, under conditions of heavy workload, etc. Would I buy an Onyx - not at a new retail price. Used, off eBay, I certainly would if the price was right.

Although I'm not 100% sure how I feel about inflator/octo combos. Guy at my LDS loves them, and the dive instructor in my OW class used one on his personal equipment. It is one less hose to worry about, so I'm going to give it a try!

Sounds like you were talked into a combination inflator / second stage by the guy in the LDS. Good for him, more profit for the shop. There are strong biases for and against (I am probably more in the latter category), but it doesn't really matter - it is your money.

I'm happy to have my dive computer as a watch.

Hopefully, you will be smart enough to not wear it as a watch on a routine basis, and meant instead that you are happy to have a wrist-mounted, instead of a console-mounted, computer.

 

[Kairoos]

The problem with so-called 'reviews' - of diving gear as well as other recreational equipment - is that they are generally quite subjective, and seldom comprehensive. For regulators, as one example, there are any number of very good units on the market and the differences are relatively small, among units in each of the three primary 'categories': entry level, mid-level, and high end. Most divers find that a good mid-level regulator is fine for all recreational diving needs, and the selection of a Zeagle, over an Apeks, over an XXX often comes down to the particular 'deal' or strong personal bias. Good kit for the most part. I presume you liked the Onyx in part because of the very favorable 2013 ScubaLabs review on scubadiving.com. It is a good regulator, which will serve you well. Out of curiosity, how does it compare with, say, the Zeagle DS-V? Well, that's a tough call, because the DS-V has been around for over 10 years, and was actually 'reviewed' way back in 2003. It delivers essentially the same performance as an Onyx, but is a more 'mature' model, and costs $100 less - hence my comment about reviews, which often primarily compare 'current' models. I have several DS-Vs, and find they perform well at depth, under conditions of heavy workload, etc. Would I buy an Onyx - not at a new retail price. Used, off eBay, I certainly would if the price was right.Sounds like you were talked into a combination inflator / second stage by the guy in the LDS. Good for him, more profit for the shop. There are strong biases for and against (I am probably more in the latter category), but it doesn't really matter - it is your money. Hopefully, you will be smart enough to not wear it as a watch on a routine basis, and meant instead that you are happy to have a wrist-mounted, instead of a console-mounted, computer.

The 2011 (non-CW model) and 2013 reviews definitely swayed me towards the Onyx. It does seem difficult to really compare between different regulators, but as you said any of the mid to high range regs are fine for the diving I'm doing. I think the combination inflator/octo will just have to be something I try out. If I don't like it, I'll sell it and get a regular octo. I'd rather try it and find out for myself if I like it. I think I may invest in a pony bottle down the line so not having that octo hose hanging around might be better. I like some of the set ups where you can quick disconnect the pony and give it to someone.

Oh I don't wear watches, and I definitely wouldn't see a point in wearing a dive computer all the time (do people do this?). I just think a dive computer watch is more convenient than a console from my limited experience.

I paid less than $1,100 for everything so I think I came out alright. I like this set up much more than the ~$999 Aqualung package they were selling.

 

[Colliam7]

The 2011 (non-CW model) and 2013 reviews definitely swayed me towards the Onyx. It does seem difficult to really compare between different regulators, but as you said any of the mid to high range regs are fine for the diving I'm doing. I think the combination inflator/octo will just have to be something I try out. If I don't like it, I'll sell it and get a regular octo. I'd rather try it and find out for myself if I like it. I think I may invest in a pony bottle down the line so not having that octo hose hanging around might be better. I like some of the set ups where you can quick disconnect the pony and give it to someone.

Fair enough. it is usually best to determine for yourself, what works for YOU. I had a similar frustration when I first started diving - why aren't there comprehensive, objective equipment reviews? Where is the Consumer Reports approach to dive equipment? Over time, I concluded that many 'reviews', even when ostensibly objective, are also carefully framed so as not to actually offend ANY equipment manufacturer - you have to say some good things about everything. Plus, it is much easier to compare 'current' equipment, than to try and compare equipment introduced over multiple years. That isn't necessarily bad, just makes life a little more difficult when purchasing gear.

Oh I don't wear watches, and I definitely wouldn't see a point in wearing a dive computer all the time (do people do this?). I just think a dive computer watch is more convenient than a console from my limited experience.

Good for you. I better understand your earlier statement - having a wrist-computer is far easier than a console, for the most part. And, yes, some people do just that - wear their dive computer as their watch. I have a good friend / fellow diver, who used to brag about wearing his dive computer on a routine basis, as his wristwatch - until he accidentally smashed it one time when gesticulating with his hands / arms, and was faced with a $400 replacement, instead of a $20 replacement. For me, my mobile phone serves as my watch as well.

I paid less than $1,100 for everything so I think I came out alright. I like this set up much more than the ~$999 Aqualung package they were selling.

Frankly, I think you got a good deal, on a good set of equipment, and you will be well-served by what you bought. Now, you just need to go out and enjoy diving it.