The Psychology of Pushing the Limits

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boulderjohn

Technical Instructor
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At the beginning of Fatally Flawed, Verna van Schaik asks if divers who push the limits--in her case diving deep within caves--have some sort of psychological need to do something like this, a drive that can lead to their deaths. I was very interested in that question when I read the book, and I was thus disappointed when she did not actually explore that question beyond a minimum and instead focused on simple autobiography.

The question is on my mind again, and I would like to explore it. I have been tossing a lot of thoughts around in my head which I plan to introduce one by one in the thread. I myself have never pushed the limits of anything. Although I am a technical diver, I have not done any dives that are anywhere close to the established limits of that sport. My deepest dives are not much past 300 feet. I have never gone off an established line in a cave. When someone asked me about my most death-defying moment in scuba, I thought for a while and decided it was the time I was suffocating while trying on a too-tight hooded vest. If there is some kind of drive to extend the limits of human endeavor, I don't know what it feels like.

I am intrigued by the scuba pioneers who pushed the limits. Some of them, people like Brett Gilliam, are still around to talk about it. Others, people like Sheck Exley and David Shaw, are not. I know some people who may be possessed of this drive, at least to some degree. Maybe all technical divers have it to some degree. I don't know.

So I am creating this thread to allow people to put forth some thoughts. I am especially interested in those who really know people like that. It does not have to be diving. I assume any activity in which it is possible to push limits have participants who are pushing them. I originally thought of writing an article in which a put forth some of my thinking in a logical presentation, but I decided I really don't have my thoughts formed enough to do that. I figured it would be better to start a cooperative effort at exploring this idea.
 
Under controlled conditions.....No 'death wish', enjoy life too much......especially watching my wife fall off her horse, which is hilarious !! ;-D.....
 
My first observation is that in my area, most of the people by far that I see getting into technical diving are also involved with other extreme sports. Where I live, we have great climbing and mountain biking opportunities. Most of the technical divers I know are into rock climbing, and some have been among the best at that sport. A couple are very serious mountain bikers, even competing professionally. One is now a serious mountain biker but was previously a professional road racer who competed against Lance Armstrong.

It seems to me that there is a connection.
 
In an increasingly tamed and homogenized world, risk is not only a means of escape but a path to spirituality. As Peter Stark writes, “You must try to understand death intimately and prepare yourself for death in order to live a full and satisfying life.” In this fascinating, informative book, Stark reveals exactly what we’re getting ourselves into when we choose to live– and die– at the extremes of endurance.
No, Stark does not have some unresolved death wish--he readily admits that he fears death. But he also understands that the fine line between life and death actually entices outdoor adventurers to risk everything for the chance to explore their own physical and mental limits. In fact, it is exactly this close proximity to death that makes the experience come alive for certain individuals with the overriding desire "to strip away the superfluous, to remove the protective boundaries between that thing you call a self and something larger." These are the stories of those who crossed the line. --Shawn Carkonen
Last Breath: Cautionary Tales from the Limits of Human Endurance: Peter Stark: 9780345441508: Amazon.com: Books
 
My second observation is a seeming interest in the limelight to some degree.

A few years ago, I helped the NSS-CDS with a project to digitize their early newsletters, which were typed out in the days before computers. Sheck Exley was the editor in those days. I could not help but notice the prominence of a section on records--details of who had gone the deepest, made the longest penetrations, etc. I am going to guess that not only was Sheck the editor, he was also the typist. (I know I was also the chief typist and layout artist of newsletters I edited.) In the charts of these records, his name appears multiple times. I wonder what kind of feeling it gave him to put his own name in so many times. I wonder why those records were even in the newsletter. Whose idea was it to make that a feature?

David Shaw was in the process of setting several records when he came upon the 10-year old body of Deon Dreyer at a depth of 890 FFW. He instantly resolved to bring that body up, despite the unbelievable danger of the operation and the senselessness of the goal. The operation became a spectacle, with television cameras. One camera especially was important--the one on his helmet that was supposed to record the recovery but instead recorded Shaw's death. In practice sessions, Shaw found that he could not do things the way he wanted with the camera on his helmet. Rather than ditch the camera, he adopted a very risky alternative plan that was ultimately the reason he died.

I mentioned Verna van Schaik's book earlier. The book purports to talk about the psychology of such efforts, but it reads to me like a need on her part to be remembered as someone who is part of that elite group of divers who push the limits. I say that with respect, and I know that Verna sometimes participates in ScubaBoard and may read these comments. I do not mean to diminish what she did or the quality of the book--I am just trying to get an understanding of the pieces that come together for motivation for these kinds of divers. (I hope she participates in this discussion.)
 
Before I started diving, I was into climbing and mountaineering for years. The most fun on the job I had before I retired was doing helicopter based rescue and technical rope stuff. There does seem to be a pattern.
 
Without meaningful risk in failure, there's no meaningful accomplishment in success.
"Tragedy is a tool for the living to gain wisdom, not a guide by which to live. . ." --Robert F. Kennedy.
 
I had the good fortune to spend a half hour or so talking with the principal of the school where Scheck taught. According to him, many of Scheck's colleagues had no idea of what he was doing. They knew he dove, and he'd disappear for a weekend to do it, but they had no clue that he was setting multiple records. Whatever doing that brought him, it was either enough for him to know it, or for the members of his particular world to know it. He apparently had no need to share it with everyone.

Through my association with GUE, I have had the opportunity to spend time with a number of people who do heavy-duty exploration diving. They've actually been fairly quiet and thoughtful people. Most of them have no other risk-taking behaviors, although a few ride motorcycles.

I think there are some people who have a drive to excel, and some who have a drive to exceed. Those in the former group become excellent and tend to survive. Those in the latter group may become excellent, but they don't live as long. I think Agnes Milowski, for example, fell into the latter group. The people I have met who clearly were that type have always left me wondering who in their prior life they need to prove things to . . .
 
I think there are some people who have a drive to excel, and some who have a drive to exceed. Those in the former group become excellent and tend to survive. Those in the latter group may become excellent, but they don't live as long. I think Agnes Milowski, for example, fell into the latter group. The people I have met who clearly were that type have always left me wondering who in their prior life they need to prove things to . . .

Agnes is one who had me thinking along those lines when she died. IIRC, her web site before she died focused on one of several previous times she almost died. It was almost as if she thrived on coming as close to death as she could. She talked about being the only person banned from diving in areas on two continents, bans earned through risky behavior. It seemed as if she thrived on coming close to death.
 
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