LDS and Nitrox fills.

[Wookie]

Untill this comment i never looked at labels in this light. I have always taken the label as a device for the diver not the shop. I would still suspect that a shop can not use the label for contents identification. I wwas always taught that when you put on the reg the contents sticker comes off so no one confules it later as being full and that mix. When you are done witht he tank you tank it off and dont use it again till filled. I think they must test,,, fill ,,then retest. No one knows if the label is the current label or not. Now in the tech side of things thier tank is marked permanately with teh mix in the form of MOD.. mod70 is 50% O2 adn is deco. Mod 20 is pure O2 and is deco. Other tanks may have such as 21/35 on them and that should tell the filler what is in them. Then again the way techs handle thier equipment is different from rec divers. If they use different mixes they have different tanks for them. Not a complaint just a realistic observation. Probably as much difference when it comes to rec shops and tech shops. When a tank arrives with a nitrox sticker on it and no contents markings i would think the shop would have to analyze to know how to do the mix unless someone just askes for a top off. Thanks for you point of view.

My guess would be that the guys who are saying that the shop should have analyzed the cylinder and verified the fill and done all of the work are recreational divers, and the guys saying that the diver should have specified the final fill, given starting pressure, starting mix, etc. are more used to dealing with Gasblender 3 or one of the other softwares that blend gas. As you gain more experience or certifications, you begin to realize that "put 32 in my tank" means exactly that, but "Start 1200 of 22%, make the final 3300 of 32%" means something else entirely.

 

[NAM001]

You are absolutely right and i would not either. Once again you have to know how the system works, not to cheat it but how to work with in it to obtain what you need. I now call ahead to the sites and ask for thier policies on tank filling regarding , availiability, stickers, vis, costs ect. If unreasonable i just bring my own tanks and dont get refills from them.

I have heard of dive shops which won't fill a tank arriving empty because they say it could have been emptied during the dive and water could have gotten in. So they only fill it after a visual inspection.

 

[Michael Guerrero]

If you're paying a fixed price (i.e., not by the cu ft) for a 32% fill, they should have figured out what they needed to do to get you 32% in your tank instead of being lazy. I would have told them to redo it, or pump some O2 into it to get me to 32%.

It's not your job to tell them how to do their job. And it's not acceptable for someone you're paying to do a half-assed job.

 

[Wookie]

If you're paying a fixed price (i.e., not by the cu ft) for a 32% fill, they should have figured out what they needed to do to get you 32% in your tank instead of being lazy. I would have told them to redo it, or pump some O2 into it to get me to 32%.

It's not your job to tell them how to do their job. And it's not acceptable for someone you're paying to do a half-assed job.

That's my point, and it's all about the semantics. He GOT 32 in his tank, and mixed with the 22 that was already there, yielded 29. I would not consider the filler half-assed or lazy, he did exactly as requested. He put 32 in the tank. It really does matter what you ask for in mixed gas, especially if what is in there was not expected (like a labelled nitrox cylinder would not be expected to have 22% nitrox in it IMO).

It's a small difference. Put 32% in my tank vs make my tank 32%.

 

[RVBldr]

I recognize that shop and the rate card above the fill station! I do a lot of fills there so it's just a communication issue. I'll stand around long enough to b.s a bit, tell them what's left in the tank and how I'd like it filled; it's not a problem. Just take the time do a little chatting and both you and the shop will have a better experience.

 

[imjustdave]

So Being the OP I really appreciate the posts and conversations that are going on.

Just for info I am a newer "this year" nitrox certified diver, so part of my Q is to know how divers have to interact with their LDS. My previous experience with 3 other dive shops with actually fills is I tell them what I want and they make it happen. Obviously this shop is different and runs entirely different then previous experience and in tern they make getting fills complicated with their multi step charging for air.
It sounds like some other parts have LDS that operate the same way. 21 and some other X is banked, kind of like a gas station, but unlike a gas station you or the gas filling person can easily empty your tank.

As a side note this LDS is in an area of very anal, picky, and overly exacting wealthy people so their lack of clarification in communication with a new customer is surprising. Please note I tend to be pretty lax, and i'm not wealthy.

The biggest thing I have learned is that I too need to be clear in my request and needed to ask more Questions, especially if its a new gas filling person and or DS

I did talk to a few other divers today "breakfast" after a dive they were all Dive instructors or DM today "aka a lot more experience then I" and they all started talking about a LDS that they felt was overly complicated and nickel and dimming dive shop especially when it came to tanks fills... Yup same dive shop.

So in the end it seems that this place is not seen as a friendly shop by my small sampling of 5 people. LOL I will go back but will communicate exactly what I want.

 

[geoff w]

So I walked into a new dive shop to me a few days ago as I need a fill and needed to shop for a few things.
...
My tank is 02 clean, and stamped accordingly.
...

I still haven't taken the gas blender class, but have read the manual. You didn't say how they do custom nitrox mixes - partial pressure blending or start with something up to 40% nitrox and top up with air (that's how a LDS by me does nitrox). If they start with some nitrox blend and top up with air, it seems like the bigger question than whether you got what you wanted is whether your tank is still O2 clean or not. I don't have O2 clean tanks, but dive shops don't have any trouble pumping premixed nitrox into my tank, and they make no claims what they pump will keep an O2 clean tank still O2 clean. My understanding is proper filtering is needed for filling O2 clean tanks to keep contaminants out, but if their banks were filled with a membrane or stick, the result of what goes in to your tank isn't necessarily O2 clean any more. If I'm completely wrong, someone please let me know

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So Being the OP I really appreciate the posts and conversations that are going on.

Just for info I am a newer "this year" nitrox certified diver, so part of my Q is to know how divers have to interact with their LDS. My previous experience with 3 other dive shops with actually fills is I tell them what I want and they make it happen. Obviously this shop is different and runs entirely different then previous experience and in tern they make getting fills complicated with their multi step charging for air.
It sounds like some other parts have LDS that operate the same way. 21 and some other X is banked, kind of like a gas station, but unlike a gas station you or the gas filling person can easily empty your tank.

As a side note this LDS is in an area of very anal, picky, and overly exacting wealthy people so their lack of clarification in communication with a new customer is surprising. Please note I tend to be pretty lax, and i'm not wealthy.

The biggest thing I have learned is that I too need to be clear in my request and needed to ask more Questions, especially if its a new gas filling person and or DS

I did talk to a few other divers today "breakfast" after a dive they were all Dive instructors or DM today "aka a lot more experience then I" and they all started talking about a LDS that they felt was overly complicated and nickel and dimming dive shop especially when it came to tanks fills... Yup same dive shop.

So in the end it seems that this place is not seen as a friendly shop by my small sampling of 5 people. LOL I will go back but will communicate exactly what I want.

Knowing a little bit about local dive shop politics, I'd be wary of taking someone's word for something simply because they're a dive instructor ... there are quite a few out there who will happily badmouth a shop because it's a perceived "competitor" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Michael Guerrero]

My previous experience with 3 other dive shops with actually fills is I tell them what I want and they make it happen.

That is exactly how it's supposed to happen. Unless you specifically asked them to top a tank off w/ 32%, then doing so on an unknown or air mixture with banked 32% and calling it good is pure BS.

You're not a gas blender, but they should be. This isn't something you should have to tell them.

 

[kelemvor]

Don't many shops require you pay them for a VIP if you bring in an empty tank? I think draining the tank first is not good advice unless he knows for sure the shop hit him for a VIP fee.