LDS and Nitrox fills.

[DogDiver]

That's fine. But my point was you get what you pay for. Use a trusted LDS and pay for their experience and trust.


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[imjustdave]

I guess the issue I had is I asked for 32% and expected 32% how my tank ended up full with 32% I felt was the operators job and responsibility as that is what I was paying for.
If they decided that they needed to drain and fill then ok, if they felt they could pump some 02 in to bump up my tank to 32 and then top off with 32 ok. Again he is the fill operator didn't expect to have to do his job. Again my tank is 02 clean, and properly marked as such.
I don't recall if the old sticker was on the tank or not but I feel a responsible fill operator would take a sample.

I guess what I received was a top off of 32% VS filling to 32%

No idea what they would say if I walked in with a tank at empty or next to empty.

For my dive it didn't really matter from a MOD point of view what was in the tank but when I saw the 29% I was puzzled, wasn't sure if it was the gauge or just a half job completed fill. I know if I go back I will explain how I felt on this first fill from them and what I receive in comparisons from other shops. Obviously my experience else where has been a little more top notch in explaining the process and or giving what was requested.

I might walk in next time and ask for 40% and see if they top off the tank with 40, drain or PP fill my tank, or better yet 100% O2 fill... maybe they would just top off with 100% o2 and what I end up with is what I get. LOL Again o2 is banked.

To those that pay by the CF ...that is cool fair and reasonable ...
And again I don't think I'm pissed off just more confused, puzzled and a questioning how other dive shops operate.

My main shop is a small tech diving place that does Trimix, nitrox, argon, air fills up to about 4000psi
My other main shop does commercial divers, SCBA tanks, trimix, nitrox, argon, air and can fill up to I think 5000 or 6000 psi even do a hand full of painball customers.
There are a few other places around but not convenient to use, can't fill nitrox, or they want 24hrs to let a tank blend.

Anyways this has been a learning experience.

 

[NAM001]

That is so wrong...

A local shop did the same thing to me and I've never darkened their doors since. I picked up a set of doubles I had asked to be filled with 32% and found them to analyze at 27%(and the fill was 15% short to boot). A little arithmetic showed that they had just dumped 32% on top of air already in the tanks. To add insult to injury, they stripped off my custom DiveSigns name tags to make room for PADI Nitrox bumper stickers, for which they wanted to charge me.

---------- Post added July 12th, 2014 at 09:03 PM ----------

I had the same thing happent o me recently. 1000# of asir in a tank and they topped off with 32%. Had i known they were gong to do that i would have bled teh tank down to 100. That was not teh worse of it. I only wanted air to begin with. You know top off with hyperfiltered air. An air fill was 8 adn a nitrox was 15, tank size made no difference. So because the tank had a nitrox sticker on it they said that even if i had an air fill theyad to charge teh nitrox rate. Now they were carefull to make sure i did not have gereater than 40 itn it to star adn found 21 in it. They filled the tank and then asked if i knew it had air in it to start. I gave them thier 15 left and submerged for an hour. I suspect that the costom blend is no cost but teh labor involved to do it is. So instead of emtying the tank and filling with 32 they may have blended into your air nitrox that results in 32% and charge you more. Each experience is a learning one. My initial fear in this was that when they found 21 in the tank with a notrox sticker they would refuse to fill the tank with out a vis being done. Consider this when taking an air filled tank and asking for nitrox. BTW the tank i gave them had 24 in it and they read 21..... so have your own o2 meter in the future.

So I walked into a new dive shop to me a few days ago as I need a fill and needed to shop for a few things.

I asked how much a fill would be and they had a chart on the wall showing all the difference pricing. First it was broken down to size of tank, LP or HP then Air, 32% and then Custom Nitrox. I asked for 32% and they said sure NP. While I waited I did a little shopping and talked about Crab lic info and I could hear them slowly filling the tank which I liked and then they say you know its a little warm if you want it now NP but if you want to come back in a few hrs we can top it off cold so you have a full 3500 fill cold. It made sense so I left and everything so far seemed great, close to work, nice guys, ok selection of stuff that I might want to buy.

So I return and set the base line of 21% hook up the analyzer to test my tank..... and it stops at 29%.... being a new shop to me unhook everything let the tester return to air and test again still 29% So I asked I'm reading 29% but wanted 32%, then they replied back with what was in the tank when you came in? I said around 22% as the last few fills were air. and they said yup sounds about right. They mentioned that they partial filled in their bank tanks, and bank 32%.

Should I expect 32% with a partially filled tank when I ask for 32%?
should I expect them to test the tank prior to filling?
My tank is 02 clean, and stamped accordingly.
If I come in with a tank that has a different amount then request should I expect to pay 2$ more for a custom fill to get it where I want it? even if 32% is a cheaper option.

In this case I started with about 22% and 1200 PSI from my memory I could have drained the tank and gotten closer to 32% then paying even more for a custom fill. but that just seems strange to empty the tank out to then fill back up.

Based on my tank and psi
I paid $14 for 32%
I think air was $10

In comparison I have 2 other dives shops that will fill nitrox to what ever level I want with what ever level is in the tank to start with. If I ask for X% that is what I get and the pricing is Air or Nitrox and not varying pricing based on % of Nitrox.

Am I expecting to much for my $14?

 

[JahJahwarrior]

I'm trying to think of parallels in other situations where you get something added to a container, such as gasoline in your car, drink in your cup, etc, but I'm not sure of a perfect analogy.

Did the shop refuse to drain and refill? I've drained and refilled tanks for customers before when they requested a very specific ending percentage that I missed by .7%.

But, when I shop, I always phrase it as "just throw some ____% on top" so it is clear that I know the ending percentage might be off by a bit based on what is in the tanks. If I need something else, I would work out what could be done with the banked mixes, or bring the tank in drained. I try to make the work of the fill monkey as easy as possible, because I've had my own fair share of odd experiences.

Was the service good other than the misunderstanding? If so, then it's just a matter of not saying "I want" and either saying "throw ____ on top" or "I need it to end up at ____". If not, then don't go back.

 

[boulderjohn]

If you wanted 32% and paid for it you should have told them to empty the tank and fill it from the banked 32%. Or added enough O2 then topped off with air or the bank to get what you asked for. When I get nitrox fills I get what I ask for.

So it sounds like the OP went into a shop that banked 32%, he asked for 32%, and the fill station operator put 32% on top of a partial air fill. T

It's a matter of communication, and I'm sorry, but I think the fault lies with the shop.

If I go into a shop, any shop, ask for a nitrox fill and am not perfectly clear up front what I want, the person I am talking to will make it clear. Do you want a final fill of 32%, or do you want 32% added to whatever you have in there already? What do you have in there now? Do you want us to bleed it off? (Etc. Etc. Etc.) I can't imagine any shop just assuming I wanted to just add 32% to what is in there already without first checking to make sure.

 

[Wookie]

If you know your shop banks 32, and you ask for 32 in your tank, I would not expect them to measure what was there, I'd expect them to put 32 in my tank. If I specifically asked for an ending percentage of 32, that's a whole new ball of wax.

 

[boulderjohn]

If you know your shop banks 32, and you ask for 32 in your tank, I would not expect them to measure what was there, I'd expect them to put 32 in my tank. If I specifically asked for an ending percentage of 32, that's a whole new ball of wax.

I agree.

I do both, depending upon the circumstances. And when I do, without fail, the people I talk to make sure we are both on the same page as to what I want. They don't want an unhappy customer (like this one) because of a communication error.

 

[OkByMe]

You guys that say to suck it up are all wrong!!! If I buy new tires, I don't need to tell them to lub the bead, clean the wheel, replace the stem and I expect the correct air pressure... If I hire a painter to paint my house, I should not have to tell them to prime bare wood and metal first... If I Tell the shop to replace the coolant in my car, I expect them to know what mix for the region... If I drop my tanks and say I want 32%, I should not have to tell them what to do! I should always get what I ask for and there is hell to pay after I pay, if I don't.

 

[Wookie]

I agree.

I do both, depending upon the circumstances. And when I do, without fail, the people I talk to make sure we are both on the same page as to what I want. They don't want an unhappy customer (like this one) because of a communication error.

We make our customers tell us what their ending pressure and mix is. When I'm filling 12 sets of doubles on a surface interval, I don't have time to stop, check pressure and mix, get my iPad out and calculate the fill. If they have a deco bottle of 50, I will put 50 on top. If they have trimix of 16/50 and want 21/35, I'll make it work. If the gas order from the customer is "top 32", I will do so, and they can analyze when it's over. If the gas order is drain and fill 32, I'll do that too. If the order is make the final gas 32, I can make that happen, but there must be communications between the diver and the fill station.

---------- Post added July 12th, 2014 at 10:35 PM ----------

You guys that say to suck it up are all wrong!!! If I buy new tires, I don't need to tell them to lub the bead, clean the wheel, replace the stem and I expect the correct air pressure... If I hire a painter to paint my house, I should not have to tell them to prime bare wood and metal first... If I Tell the shop to replace the coolant in my car, I expect them to know what mix for the region... If I drop my tanks and say I want 32%, I should not have to tell them what to do! I should always get what I ask for and there is hell to pay after I pay, if I don't.

And if you pull into a gas station in New Jersey and tell the attendant to "fill 'er up", and he gives you 93 octane (assume a Sunoco station), will you get mad and say "I meant regular unleaded"?

And I am always asked what pressure I want my tires at. I would never go back to someplace that assumes that they know what I want. So, my opinion is right and yours is wrong. So neener neener neener.

 

[boulderjohn]

We make our customers tell us what their ending pressure and mix is.

And if that had happened in this case, there would not be thread for us to be discussing.