Has SCUBA training gone too far?

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I feel that these "courses" can be put into 2 simple categories. Safety or Education.

Nitrox is safety. Wreck/cavern/(overhead environment) is also safety.

Fish Id, Peak Performance, those are education. If you do not know what kind of fish that is, you will not die(hopefully). Your buoyancy may suck, but, if you are already qualified, then something that helps you refine your buoyancy is education.
 
Do you believe there are a lot of divers out there who think they need to have an underwater photography card to take a camera on a dive?

I don't know about a lot, but a person I dove with once was definitely under that impression. They told me they had put off buying a camera for diving because they were not yet certified for it.

In my opinion it's not so much a matter of what classes you take or want to take. It's how shops pitch this stuff. Some shops in my area definitely sell classes in this way. If you want to do a boat dive, you had better be thinking about that boat dive specialty class... That sort of thing. If you want to take a boat diving class, more power to you. But it's not cool that shops trick people into thinking such classes are necessary.
 
...Have the SCUBA training agencys gone to far? There seams to be a specialty for just about everything you can do while diving. ...it's the over zealous training agencys I have an issue with.

One certification Agency sliced up the diver training course in the late 60's and made OW, Advanced and Rescue courses to be offered separately. They added some content, but the 'Diver course' formed the basis of these programs and subsequently content was eliminated from their basic/OW course. This accomplished two major things:

1. It allowed a person to become a 'certified Diver' in less time and with less expense.

This appealed to people who wanted certification cheap and quick. The definition of what it meant to be a certified diver changed. The end result however, was that diving equipment sales greatly increased; one underlying reason why this change had occurred in the first-place.

2. The advantage for the Agency was that instead of processing one certification, their potential income (from a similar scope of training) increased by 300%.

Tripling business income could be seen as nothing else but a good business move. This Agency gained great advantage over its competition, which it still maintains today.

Not wanting to sit on its laurels, it applied this logic to other areas as well. They invented the specialty card and as you've mentioned, there's a specialty for everything. This results in more 'certifications' and more profit for the Agency, LDS and Instructor. Brilliant!!!

Have Agencies gone too far? From my perspective absolutely! Diver training standards have fallen to a degree where solo diving has become popular (or at least accepted). No longer can you reasonably expect competence from another diver, or for that matter an Instructor.

When your 'certified' Buddy may not know how to swim, or have any idea in how to do a submerged rescue, it's difficult to gain confidence. It seems that these are largely requirements of the past. In any case, the person can always come back for more training. Ching Ching

It is however hard to blame an industry; which like others is designed to maximize profits. Greed (good business) rules the day. It's also hard to blame the Clients. They don't know what they don't know and don't want to pay more, if they can get it for less. What 'it' is however, cannot be defined by their knowledge or experience. They often just trust the LDS. Welcome into the training system...

The idea of value has all but disappeared from our Society. People however seem to love badges. It somehow makes them feel accomplished. It meets a need, as they desire to feel safe and competent performing the activity.

All in all, I think most of it is a big scam... Divers do not require many of the courses they take today. A course is only one method of learning. Although it's quite often the most convenient method for many.

I recommend that people learn through a dive club and not an LDS, if this is available. From my experience, the training tends to be more comprehensive and less expensive for the Student in the long-run. Mentors are available and often numerous.
 
I think that what kind of specialty is useful or interesting depends on the diver.
That may depend on curiosity and personal interests (like dish identification, underwater photography...) or, what's worse, can be due to lack of basic training. I don't agree with the trend of making initial certifications shorter and easier and then charge extra for "specialties" which should have already been covered.

And what's becoming a big problem here is that because some agency starts a certain specialty, then the requirement for it becomes the norm.
 
...I don't agree with the trend of making initial certifications shorter and easier and then charge extra for "specialties" which should have already been covered. And what's becoming a big problem here is that because some agency starts a certain specialty, then the requirement for it becomes the norm.

The same dive shops that offer this training are self-serving in that they may require these specialties for particular dives. I can see merit in a Charter Operator requiring a Diver to have deeper-water experience, if they wish to undertake a deeper dive. (for example). Establishment of logged dives should be enough to eliminate any perceived responsibility on the part of the Operator.

This is especially true as there is no legal requirement to be a 'Certified Diver' in the first-place. The 'requirement' to possess any certification is a perceived one; in-which the LDS/Charter Operator attempts to force others to contribute to their business model. Requiring a Dry-Suit specialty to rent a Dry-Suit, or a Boat Diving specialty to go on a boat dive is just part of the scam.

That said, when I owned an LDS and was a Charter Operator, there were some dives that required the diver to show deeper water or wreck competence. This could either be established through the level of certification or experience (logged dives). Not all divers were allowed to participate on subsequent excursions, if their competence lacked the required skills (because you have a wreck diving certification doesn't necessarily mean that I choose to dive a wreck with you). I attempted to align a Diver's capability with dives that could be challenging for them, but at the same time didn't present a clear and present danger.
 
I kind of like the dive operations in Mexico. They check you out while you set up your equipment, they watch you in the water, and when they know you can dive they take you diving.

That happened to us in Raja Ampat last October. When we arrived and were filling out the paperwork, my dive buddy couldn't find her c-cards ... she thought she might have left them in Lembeh Straits, where we'd spent the previous week. The head of the dive operation told her not to worry about it ... he'd go diving with us the following morning and said he'd know if she had the experience she claimed she had.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
The op makes some great points. Part of the explosion of specialty classes is the perspective of society these days that if you want to do something you take a class, and take the most convenient class possible. No doubt certification agencies have been driven the trend to, creating more products wherever they can. In the end, we all become more competent and confident divers by DIVING. My personal list of the most worthwhile PADI classes, in no particular order: Open water, advanced open water, rescue diver, navigation, nitrox, equipment specialist, and then some of the tech classes ( with the right instructor)
DivemasterDennis
 
Aqua Andy - Under water photography, will I be considered reckless if I don't take this class and dive with a camera?

boulderjohn - Do you believe there are a lot of divers out there who think they need to have an underwater photography card to take a camera on a dive?

I don't know about a lot, but a person I dove with once was definitely under that impression. They told me they had put off buying a camera for diving because they were not yet certified for it.

I'll have to disagree on this one cert, I personally believe that a photog class should be mandatory for UW photographers. The class should be 8 dives with only the last 3, may be 4, dives using a camera and should they fail, they start over. The overall incompetence of new camera wielding divers is a danger to themselves, others, and the environment. It should consist of buoyancy and situational awareness (depth, time, tank pressure, NDL, buddy, and conditions), with actual picture taking at the end of the list, where it belongs.

I'm, only to a certain extent, joking.:D



Bob
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One could have a whole discussion just on the unintended hazards of photography/videography. I believe a camera is the most dangerous piece of equipment a diver can own.
 
I'll have to disagree on this one cert, I personally believe that a photog class should be mandatory for UW photographers. The class should be 8 dives with only the last 3, may be 4, dives using a camera and should they fail, they start over. The overall incompetence of new camera wielding divers is a danger to themselves, others, and the environment. It should consist of buoyancy and situational awareness (depth, time, tank pressure, NDL, buddy, and conditions), with actual picture taking at the end of the list, where it belongs.

I'm, only to a certain extent, joking.:D



Bob
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Please add courtesy toward fellow divers to that curriculum (though rude photographers who jostle other divers or disturb marine life to get a better shot seem to go hand in hand with the poor buoyancy and situational awareness).
 

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