Is guided diving bad for developing skills?

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I totally agree Centrals Irian Jaya is a much more exotic name - sorry for the geography lesson after 4 years of uni its one of my little pet irks when people lump PNG in with Asia. The people of both West Papua and PNG are quite different culturally too - personally while RA is impressive - PNG diving will continue to rule IMO due to the remoteness and lack of divers everywhere. RA is starting to become LOB city.
Tigerman I agree with you to a point, however as i am not a photographer I prefer to buddy up with a guide in Lembeh (Supid is particularly good) as some photographers can spend 25 minutes taking pics of pygmy seahorses leaving other divers hovering around waiting - which is where you see the difference between dive ops. If a dive op (particularly somewhere like Lembeh) splits up photographers from other divers thats a sign of good planning to keep all divers happy.
 
Its kinda annoying for the photographers to have to follow the others before they get their shot as well, so making sure photogrophers dive with photographers and even better allow them to "lag behind" is definetly better for everyone.. I can easilly ignore the 2 stonefish and school of slightly above average tuna to get a good shot of a goby :p
 
Although I agree that having a guide in new places, especially when not very familiar with how to find things - I tend to find just as much macro life as the guides (which is why I always end up in the back of the group) and on occasions Ive had the guides go after the dive "I just followed the guy whit the huge camera, cause he found all the good stuff anyways"..
Finding stuff is a learned "skill" just as much as it is about memorizing where "Bob" and "Winston" live. The combination of both is of course better than just one of them tho..
I wonder how often a diver can locate a pygmy sea horse without being told where to look for it?
I am not doubting your ability to spot marine animals. But as you had said "finding stuff is a learned skill" which unfortunately many divers just do not have or have no inclination to learn. Diving guide is just like a travelling guide book except the dive guide will physically bring the clients to the places of interest.

I have no problem diving with dive guide. I just don't follow too close and heading to the general direction as mentioned on pre-dive briefing.

---------- Post added December 15th, 2013 at 10:56 AM ----------

I totally agree Centrals Irian Jaya is a much more exotic name - sorry for the geography lesson after 4 years of uni its one of my little pet irks when people lump PNG in with Asia. The people of both West Papua and PNG are quite different culturally too - personally while RA is impressive - PNG diving will continue to rule IMO due to the remoteness and lack of divers everywhere. RA is starting to become LOB city.
Imagine if it was the Dutch who ruled the whole 'bird" + those Islands instead of the Pom/OZ. Everything will be under Indonesia by now and regarded to be in Asia.
 
I've only ever done guided dives on vacation [aside from a few local cold-water training dives] so yeah, I'm one of those...

Yes, I think this sort of thing hurts my development as a diver. For my first few 'real' dives in Hawaii, my gear got set up for me, and it took a while for me get comfortable with doing it myself. I dove with my computer but had only a rudimentary idea of what it was telling me until I took it into a swimming pool and played with it for an hour by myself. I've done my AOW training and I understand the principles of navigation [been a compass user for many years, which helped] but I have yet to do an independent dive where I had to find my own way there and back again. On the dives I've done, the pressure of having to keep up with the DM and group and my instabuddy pretty much blew any chances I had to really think about what I was doing at the time and get used to it. OTOH I am a fairly analytical thinker, so I learn things even from my guided dives once they're over and I reflect back on how things went.


I really envy people who live in good dive locations, many of whom may do more dives in a year or two than I will in my entire dive career. I think I'm a basically competent diver, but I know I'll never be the equal of someone who's really good and experienced. I'm okay with that however. I am a fairly analytical thinker, so I learn things even from my guided dives. I'm not staying out of the water because of any of this.
 
Tigerman I agree with you to a point, however as i am not a photographer I prefer to buddy up with a guide in Lembeh (Supid is particularly good) as some photographers can spend 25 minutes taking pics of pygmy seahorses leaving other divers hovering around waiting - which is where you see the difference between dive ops. If a dive op (particularly somewhere like Lembeh) splits up photographers from other divers thats a sign of good planning to keep all divers happy.

Its kinda annoying for the photographers to have to follow the others before they get their shot as well, so making sure photogrophers dive with photographers and even better allow them to "lag behind" is definetly better for everyone.. I can easilly ignore the 2 stonefish and school of slightly above average tuna to get a good shot of a goby :p

Several years ago I went on a trip on a liveaboard, and as a single diver, I was paired with the only other single diver on the trip. He was a serious photographer. The dives were sometimes guided and sometimes unguided, depending upon the situation. I had some issues with my buddy from the start but suffered with them as best I could until the dive that made the problems obvious to everyone. This was definitely a guided dive, because we were supposed to follow a specific path and end it in a cavern with lots of beautiful cave formations. The description of it in the briefing made it sound spectacular--the signature dive for the entire trip. We were divided into two groups, and my photographer buddy and I were in the second group. Our guide was a new employee who clearly did not have the people skills to handle the situation.

The first time we came upon something worth photographing, he stayed on that subject for so long that the first group was far, far ahead of us by the time we moved on. Then we came upon something tiny and interesting hiding in a coral formation, and my photographer buddy decided he was going to get the perfect shot. The rest of us hung around and hung around and hung around and hung around and hung around while he lay there, taking shot after shot after shot after shot after shot. Finally, we were all low on air and had to surface. We did not complete half of the dive plan, and we did not get anywhere near that (I guess) fabulous cavern.

After the dive, he was raving about how great the dive was for him. "I got more than 120 shots!" he exclaimed. I said, "I think the rest of us were really looking forward to getting into that cavern." Not me!" he replied, "I'd rather look at living fish than rocks any day." After that, the boat captain then made him a special offer. He would be the guy's personal guide the rest of the week, showing him great stuff to photograph. Relieved of the need to be this jerk's buddy, I finally got to enjoy some dives.

Yes, it is OK under the right circumstances to follow your own plan. Just be aware of the fact that in many cases, what you do impacts the dives for everyone else. Some people see a need to balance their needs with the needs of others, but other people don't give that a second thought. When your needs are so important to you that everyone else has to sacrifice to keep you happy, then you are creating a whole bunch of lasting enemies.
 
I know John, which is why Im saying that YOU are never the majority on a dive boat, everyone else is..
Its also why I preferr my buddy being a photographer rather than someone who want to cover as much ground as possible - for the good of both of us..

And 120 shots? PFFT! Thats nothing, on a good dive I easilly have several 100s :p
 
A couple of weeks ago I was in our dive shop, and a guy who was in there introduced himself to me out of the blue. He said he was a photographer, and he had taken a couple of the pictures on the shop walls. He gave me his card in case I wanted to check out his web site and buy some of his shots. As he talked, I decided not to remind him that we had gone to Thailand together a couple years before and been roommates for two weeks. I wonder if I am so utterly forgettable, or if he is just unaware of any life forms outside of himself.
 
I'm essentially a cold water diver. No guides in the Great Lakes and you do your own gas planning and navigation.
I just came back from diving in Iceland. The geological features I wanted to see (Silfra in freshwater and Strytan geothermal vent in the Arctic Sea) required local guides. I wouldn't hace been able to fi d a shipwreck, the Standard, in the harbour in Akureyri due to the low viz and location. In these cases the dives guides and I planned the dives together, and it was very enjoyable.

Though I do a lot of solo diving, I usually don't dive a new place without so
somebody local, either a local diver, a local dive shop group or even a hired guide. There may be currents, tides, or access issues where local knowledge makes things easier and/or safer.

It doesn't detract from my responsibility to plan my dive and navigate however.
 
My selection of buddy is very simple: No photographer.
 
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