I think WetSuits are Safer and Better than Dry suits for the vast majority of divers

[danvolker]

You said it, Dan, not me. If you didn't want us to believe it then why would you say it?

Feel free to back-peddle if you want but don't blame anyone else for what you said.

Pretty sad that you would try to pull this off as anything other than as a literary tool. I would say it because most people with a college level education, or High school graduates that are above average in intelligence, would be quite used to discussions where such a vehicle was used. For the intelligent people that I aimed this at, I think they understood this just fine. Those that did not, well, Darwin may help out here in the long run

Wow... that's two thinly veiled threats in one thread. You're outdoing yourself, Dan. That's quite an accomplishment.

Wow...it looks to me like you are trying to fabricate my threatening you....UNfortunately for you, anyone with any brains will have understood the post to indicate I was talking about the people that live around you--people in the Netherlands( which I even went so far as to indicate--knowing how easily you misconstrue things). So this was in no way a threat...It is just me shocked about how you get along in life....and me shocked that Pete would allow someone with such agendas as you do, to be involved in his creation--and potentially souring it with your obvious malfeasance's and agendas.

I think you've established your reputation and exposed your true personality perfectly now. I'm going to say "mission accomplished".

My only regret is that it took 160 posts and that the people who *should* know what you're like aren't even reading this thread anymore.

R..

And this is disturbing...that you show, that you have an agenda to "get me" to show some behavior that you think is evident and horrible.
The reality, is that I made some posts about drysuits and efficiency and safety, and you and a few others began attacking me..I think you and some others get personally insulted if someone suggests that any gear they happen to use is not ideal--that somehow my saying bad things about dry suits, equated to saying bad things about you and them....and this meant they should attack back! And then you began making up things about me..... I am almost surprised that this has not become so obvious that you would have been fired as a moderator....but then it may very well not be about what is right, but more about who is in the inner circle at SB, and who is not.

As to who is reading...over 700 views in the last 24 hours indicates it is the most currently read thread on the Exposure Suit forum....so in the scheme of things, your statement sounds more like a direction you would hope for, than any hint of reality.

But hey...Enjoy it...You are a Star!!!

 

[tomfcrist]

A actually dan. ...this entire thread can be summed up like this: you stated that drysuits compromise safety for rec divers in tropical waters.......many divers chimed in and disagreed, you took offence to people daring to disagree with you , and your continual ranting about your clearly misguided opinion that drysuits are a safety liability in your area.

I really just want to dive with you now.......to see if you are as closed minded in person as you are on the internet.

 

[Diver0001]

As to who is reading...over 700 views in the last 24 hours indicates it is the most currently read thread on the Exposure Suit forum....so in the scheme of things, your statement sounds more like a direction you would hope for, than any hint of reality.

LOL... well people do like a good train wreck...

either that or 690 of those views were you

As for all the blah blah about how terrible I am etc. etc. Meh. I decided at some point in this thread that I was going to give you some push-back. It's obviously gotten under your skin but that's ok by me. I wasn't trying to make friends with you, I was trying to give the other (what was it? ) 700 people who read this thread a reading on you so they could put your comments about the evils of drysuits in context.

What gets under my skin is arrogance and deception. Something you know a lot about (don't make me post the link).

R..

 

[danvolker]

LOL... well people do like a good train wreck...

either that or 690 of those views were you

As for all the blah blah about how terrible I am etc. etc. Meh. I decided at some point in this thread that I was going to give you some push-back. It's obviously gotten under your skin but that's ok by me. I wasn't trying to make friends with you, I was trying to give the other (what was it? ) 700 people who read this thread a reading on you so they could put your comments about the evils of drysuits in context.

What gets under my skin is arrogance and deception. Something you know a lot about (don't make me post the link).

R..

All I know is all the deception that you have employed in this thread was done so in reply to my honest intent to show what was wrong with dry suits....and I really hate dry suits.
i realize in the cold water destinations, they are a necesary evil, but we do see plenty of them in Florida in the winter time, and I had to react to that.
Sorry this upset you and some others, so very much.

As to arrogance, no one that has ever been on a boat with me in person would describe me as arrogant....this would appear to be in your mind, due to the problems of communicating over the Internet.

 

[Diver0001]

I really hate dry suits.

There we go. That's the summary of this thread we've been waiting for. Thank you for coming clean.

As to arrogance, no one that has ever been on a boat with me in person would describe me as arrogant....this would appear to be in your mind, due to the problems of communicating over the Internet.

That's quite possible. Written language is a horrible instrument for communication.

R..

 

[tomfcrist]

So dan if you saw me on a boat with you in the winter , with my drysuit would you tell me it is an unsafe way to dive in Florida?

 

[danvolker]

So dan if you saw me on a boat with you in the winter , with my drysuit would you tell me it is an unsafe way to dive in Florida?

Not to you ...and not to anybody on a boat....that would be an assinine thing for me to do, and it would never be even remotely considered. On a boat, you want everyone to have fun, and you want to help everyone keep a good zen up in the conversations you have..... On Scubaboard, I see this as a place to discuss this kind of issue....and to get feedback from the advanced divers and instructors, and from the new divers.
With this completed....who knows what alterations in drysuit purchases may occur from the "Butterfly Effect" ? Maybe there will be MORE purchases of drysuits, because Diver0001 and his cronies were so creative in the misconstruing, that my whole concept will backfire on my intent...maybe not....I am still happy I started it.

And obviously it is not a conversation to have with an advanced diver like yourself that has plenty of experience to know how to be safe anywhere....
Again...I live in a state that has a huge number of new or poorly certified divers here all the time.....and many of them are going to be pitched about drysuit diving by the shops between now and January. If I can prevent 20 or 30 of these divers, from making these purchases--I will feel like all the pain and suffering felt on both sides of this thread, will have been worth it

 

[tomfcrist]

Dan the point is that you don't know me from Adam. And if your true opinion is that wearing a drysuit in the conditions you dive recreationally is inherently unsafe( you have stated this more than once ) than why would you not try to stop someone from committing an unsafe act? This tells me you either don't actually believe its a safety issue, or you don't give a rip if someone you are diving with is safe or not.

The way I would have gone about this thread is to point out the disadvantages of diving dry in your area , vice telling us it is "safer" to dive wet. The reality is that there is no safety issue here, but one of efficiency.....which isn't really worth talking about for the majority of rec divers.

The efficiency issue really only relates to your personal objectives while diving, and not at all to the rest of the divers on the boat with you.

 

[danvolker]

Dan the point is that you don't know me from Adam. And if your true opinion is that wearing a drysuit in the conditions you dive recreationally is inherently unsafe( you have stated this more than once ) than why would you not try to stop someone from committing an unsafe act? This tells me you either don't actually believe its a safety issue, or you don't give a rip if someone you are diving with is safe or not.

The way I would have gone about this thread is to point out the disadvantages of diving dry in your area , vice telling us it is "safer" to dive wet. The reality is that there is no safety issue here, but one of efficiency.....which isn't really worth talking about for the majority of rec divers.

The efficiency issue really only relates to your personal objectives while diving, and not at all to the rest of the divers on the boat with you.

Tom,

• I think it is "safer" for a buddy team to dive with a long hose primary, than it is for each of them to dive a short primary, and have their "safe second" or "octopus, stuffed into a mouthpiece holder behind their range of sight...or just dragging on the ground .....
• I think it is safer for the diver if they do biking or running or some cardio, 2 or 3 times per week--but the majority of divers do not, and will not.
• I think it is safer for most recreational divers to dive with a buddy, than to dive solo....

I could go on with 2 dozen more ideas on what could make divers I see on a boat safer.....BUT......If I started "Preaching" about safety on every charter boat I went on, pretty soon the boats would ask me not to do this--it would be obnoxious--this is not the place for it.....

Now if I see something so horifyingly bad that I have a high level of confidence, that the diver in question will actually have a severe accident if I don't say something...then I will immediately say something....examples many of us have seen would be:

• A diver waddling back to the platform to jump in, with their tank about to fall off the cams and come out in the water or sooner.
• A diver about to jump in the water with a tank having less than 600 psi in it....( they clearly grabbed the wrong tank)
• someone planning to get in for a second dive, that you saw almost die on the first dive, due to severe errors in ascent and OOA , etc....this you probably pass to the Captain if they look like they will be a severe accident, to practically anyone who saw this.

The Drysuit issue is a mild safety issue...more like the cardio....I still think it is appropriate to chat about on SB, but pretty much could not be a topic on a boat--at least not one i would ever initiate.
And just so you know....I never made DIR cracks on boats back in the 90's. If a diver asked me about my DIR rig, I would politely answer their questions, and I would show them what they would ask for if they wanted a demonstration, but I never, ever made a diver feel bad by suggesting that they were not DIR and should be.


ohh....and I do think everyone on SB should do cardio at least a couple of times per week

 

[tomfcrist]

Does military PT 4 days a week count?