What do we need to be safe divers?

[KD8NPB]

1.) Do a 3 to 5 minute safety stop for all dives past 40 ft.
2.) If nitrox is available, use it! It can't hurt, it can only help.
3.) Stay in good physical shape (If you can barely fit in an XXXL wetsuit and you're not 6'8", maybe you should reconsider)
4.) WATCH YOUR ASCENT RATE. Slower is better, give your body time to catch up.
5.) Do an S-drill at the start of your dive. It quickly reveals trapped hoses.
6.) Do a surface bubble check with your buddy. Do you want to dive with a buddy whose regulator's 1st stage is fizzing like champagne (Sherwood dry bleed excluded )?

 

[Foxfish]

I'm a little puzzled as to how the victim got to be there. It might have been a momentary lapse of concentration or stupidity that set it in motion but all they describe is the end result and I'm a long way from saying, "lapse of concentration = instant death". That's too much of stretch for me.

Given the tone of your post you seem to be interested in arguing this point. So without just quoting more incident reports, maybe you can describe the mechanism that leads straight from a momentary lapse of concentration to death. I'm interested in the logic behind your thinking. Why would that be a one-step process in your mind?

You need some more evidence? Here is another for a start.

July 2002 02/170
A diver was at a depth of 15m conducting mask clearing training
drills. He suffered a panic attack and lost consciousness during
the ascent. He was recovered into the boat and resuscitation
techniques were applied during the return to the shore. They
were met by an ambulance and resuscitation attempts
continued. The diver was taken to hospital but failed to recover.

In saying

"lapse of concentration = instant death"

, you misconstrued my comments. Neither did I say

a momentary lapse in concentration

. Please withdraw the comments.

---------- Post added October 21st, 2013 at 12:56 PM ----------

And another from the BSAC Annual Diving Incident Report

March 2001 01/092
A group of trainee divers assembled at 6m and began an descent
to 18m. One of the group experienced an ear problem at 10m, an
instructor waited with her. She got to 14m but seemed nervous.
The instructor took her to a cliff face to act as a reference point.
The trainee is thought to have swallowed water which caused her
to panic. She spat out her regulator. The instructor replaced it
and purged it, but the trainee would not accept the regulator. They
were in mid water and sinking. The instructor started an ascent
and they got to 6m. At that point the instructor lost her grip on the
trainee and made a rapid ascent to the surface. The trainee sank.
A search was started and the trainee was found on a ledge at 7m
some 10 - 15 min later. Resuscitation techniques were applied
and the trainee was taken to hospital. She was kept on a life
support machine for a week but failed to recover.

 

[TSandM]

There are a very few "momentary" lapses that can kill you -- holding your breath on ascent, or panicking and rejecting a regulator, are two of them. In contrast, there are a great many "lapses" that may initiate problems which are completely recoverable by a diver whose focus has returned, and who remains calm. Getting lost (in OW), losing track of depth or time, getting lower than planned on gas (or even running OUT of gas, in the right company), forgetting to hook up inflator hoses or even open your tank valve, are all "lapses" that can and have been survived. I myself did more than one uncontrolled ascent in my early years, and survived them unhurt.

If you remain calm and keep breathing, many if not most errors are survivable. (Note that this goes ONLY for open water, recreational diving. It no longer holds once you are under an overhead, virtual or real.)

 

[emoreira]

When I teaches classes for A.N.D.I. we use an acronym called "ATKEE"...

View attachment 169310

Attitude - Training - Knowledge - Equipment - Experience.

It represents the 5 fundamental factors that dictate a safe, superior diver. I particularly like it... and it is relevant to any certification level or activity.

The diver has to not only possess these attributes, appropriate to their diving, but also has to apply them. The diver is only as strong as their weakest link - so compromises and shortfalls reduces the whole.

I use this as a way to assess divers in training. I suggest students use it for self-analysis too. Each of the factors relative to the level of diving and activity being taught. I also use it during accident/mishap analysis.

Try it out

This is similar to the Diver Diamond of SSI

 

[Diver0001]

In saying , you misconstrued my comments. Neither did I say . Please withdraw the comments.

Interested readers should refer to Foxfish's earlier posts to see the exact wording of his assertion.

I don't see us getting much further right now.

I'll try to explain it using your example of the diver with the botched mask drill.

Nobody can see the exact details from an incident report but if you ask me, that diver was probably already up to his arse in the incident pit *before* the mask drill.

Botching the mask drill was the thing that sucked in all the way in. But what could have happened *before* that point that caused the mask drill to be the straw that broke the camel's back?

You seem to be focusing on the last few seconds but what I wrote above, and the reason I don't agree with you is that incidents often start to develop LONG before the thing that people write about in the incident reports. Describing the end result is not enough to understand the incident in its proper context.

R..

 

[jord1990]

Can we end the argument here before we get 20 more accident quotes. You are almost saying the same thing like R said. it could have started before he even got in the water. Nobody knows.

Jord

 

[Agility]

This is similar to the Diver Diamond of SSI

well not quite, attitude is missing.
I think this point is as important as the others are

 

[Darnold9999]

A very small thing to add to the discussion is to avoid single task focus. That is, to get so focused on the one thing that you are doing that all else gets forgotten. Diving is multitasking - losing that process and focusing on a single task can get you into trouble. In an emergency it can kill you.

 

[Foxfish]

Rotunder, I don't intend to get into childish explanations about what I previously stated with someone with an obvious axe to grind. I will however point out again that you misconstrued the intent and meaning of what I previously said which was as follows:

Most divers do an open water course and survive so you could infer the courses are by and large adequate. Those that get into trouble often lack confidence in the water and competence in the basic diving and water skills or are cavalier and complacent. Once you've finished your course, no one is going to nurse you out in the deep blue. You are responsible for your safety. If you screw up you can die! You need to evaluate your skills and attitude and decide if you fit into any of the risk categories. The fact that you are asking these questions suggests you at least have a healthy regard for diving in a safe manner. That attitude needs to be maintained at all times. A lapse in concentration or even a short period of stupidity can quickly result in serious injury or death.

Compare that with what you clearly infer I stated:

It might have been a momentary lapse of concentration or stupidity that set it in motion but all they describe is the end result and I'm a long way from saying, "lapse of concentration = instant death". That's too much of stretch for me.

As a moderator, you should be able to recognize that you have misconstrued my comments in order to support your own contentions. Please acknowledge that you have misrepresented my comments and withdraw your statements.

 

[letterboy]

Or perhaps our words did not make their intended point anywhere but your mind.