Primary Long Hose Length: 5' or 7'?

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(BTW, putting two bottles on your left doesn't affect you at all, even in current; beyond two, the bottles go on a leash which leaves them behind you, which doesn't unbalance you, either. If you are diving more than two bottles, it's recommended to have a scooter to deal with the drag.)

This all started with a question about hose lengths. I took exception to your statement that a long hose which was not caught under something could come loose without the diver noticing, and cause a great deal of trouble. My experience has been that, when it comes loose (and sometimes it will) you DO notice it, and control it before it causes issues. But many, many threads have shown that the diving population you deal with is not the one I do. Perhaps putting people who run out of gas routinely and violently mug strangers for their regulators into long hoses would not be a good strategy. Thank goodness, I have no idea.

While having two extra tanks on one side may not unbalance you, it does unbalance a lot of people. If tanks on a leash seem safe to you, then the seas must be rather quiet.

While your experience may say that you will notice a 7' hose getting it loose and you will handle it well, then you are both just relating your experience, and that experience must, again, have happened in fairly quiet seas and when things were going right. For Us, loose hoses in bad conditions are rarely a good thing, and often a very, very bad thing. And it is never a good idea to count on things going right (like being able to restow a hose) when the only time the hose is used is when things are already not going right. We have mentioned that S-Drills are counterproductive before, and this is part of why. It makes divers not notice how things can go wrong when they are going wrong, because they are practicing things in only ideal situations, and not in real situations.

If you think a discussion about 5' or 7' hoses is somehow made better by dragging unrelated threads into it, then you do. For Us, that is saying something about you, and not saying much about the topic of 5' or 7' hoses.
 
Is there a way (aside from buying one of each) to tell which length would be ideal for my primary in a Hogarthian-style gear configuration modified for open water? I dive a dry suit with no can light. I'm about six feet tall and medium build.

locus;

I'm 6'1" 220lb and I use a 7 foot hose with a dive rite solid 90% swivel. I use the same hose setup on my doubles as on my recreational single. if you don't have a can light (yet) or a knife to hock the loop on, you should then stuff the excess hose into your waist strap.

the intent of the long hose is to make sharing air easier and to allow for a single file exit from a constrictive space.




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Beano, I've never put a tank on a leash. I've never done a shore entry with two bottles if the entry was difficult. Shoot, I avoid shore entries that are difficult in a single tank backmount setup!

People I know personally and greatly respect, however, do all the things you are talking about -- maybe not shore entries with tanks on a leash (except into caves, where the entries are dead-bang simple) but certainly multi-deco-bottle dives in open water with current. It can be done. I don't do it, and I admit that. Maybe you do, and maybe you don't. I try to be very honest and open about what I know how to do, what I have done, and what I have no experience with. I am no diving god.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when you say that divers don't notice what is is going wrong when it is going wrong, because the only practice they do is in ideal situations. I think, if you are going to practice stressful or challenging things, that starting out in the best conditions possible is wise. No, the situation where you have to use the skill is not likely to be ideal -- but better to have practiced, than to be completely at sea, when the exigency occurs.

I think 7 foot hoses are easily managed by most people in a back-inflate BC. Maybe not so much in jackets, because there is so much STUFF on and around the waistband in front. 5' hoses route the same way, but may be felt to be too short by people with broad or deep chests. (No, beano, you may not have encountered this, but I HAVE, with a Fundies buddy.) 40" hoses under the arm keep a streamlined setup, but require a 90 degree adapter to sit comfortably in the mouth.

I'm sure the OP has learned all of this. I'm also sure he's learned that there are religions in diving, and one of them is atheism . . . He's also learned that simple questions can devolve into really ridiculously contentious and artificial arguments, because there are such intense factions in diving. Which is really absurd, because we are all in the water to have fun and see cool stuff. There are a lot of ways to approach this sport, and most of them work more or less well. I utilize a certain approach, and promote it, because I think it works pretty darned well and solves a lot of problems very simply. It is not the only way to dive, and I do not sneer at those who don't utilize my system. I wish I could say the same of others.
 
While having two extra tanks on one side may not unbalance you, it does unbalance a lot of people. If tanks on a leash seem safe to you, then the seas must be rather quiet.

While your experience may say that you will notice a 7' hose getting it loose and you will handle it well, then you are both just relating your experience, and that experience must, again, have happened in fairly quiet seas and when things were going right. For Us, loose hoses in bad conditions are rarely a good thing, and often a very, very bad thing. And it is never a good idea to count on things going right (like being able to restow a hose) when the only time the hose is used is when things are already not going right. We have mentioned that S-Drills are counterproductive before, and this is part of why. It makes divers not notice how things can go wrong when they are going wrong, because they are practicing things in only ideal situations, and not in real situations.

Stowing a 7' hose is a one handed task with a canister/pocket/knife/canister simulator, and I'd guess that if you're doing multiple stage dives you'll have a light anyway so that's a moot point. Hoses under canisters don't come loose easily so that's another non issue. If you can't restow your hose under your canister with one hand the problem is you, not the configuration.

S-drills (or modified s-drill) also help ensure the long hose isn't trapped, which is important.
 
I'm 6'1" 220lb and I use a 7 foot hose with a dive rite solid 90% swivel.

And you don't have any issues with where the hose sits against the side of your head?

Which second stage are you using, because that obviously matters as well?
 
Come on, 7ft is not that long. It definitely wont get caught by someone's leg as long as the diver's upper legs are remotely straight. I am 5'6", 135lb, 7ft loop is just below my hip bone by a few inches, far from my knees. I think even if I want to, I can't put my knee in to loop.
 
On ocean dives you SHOULD HAVE a knife....it works well in the posiiton on a belt, both for the routing and for the access.
Most divers need a pocket. It needs to be out of the primary flow of water to keep the diver slick and hydrodynamic. The pockets we use on a waiste belt are perfect for this...they can hold the smb and spool you may need at the end of a dive, or any number of other small but essential elements you may need on some dives--and of course, they route well also.

I'm not DIR or GUE but I've found that the 'classic' Hogarthian setup is a well thought out COMPLETE system.
Cherry picking individual parts of the system can cause problems when mixed with other items which are not compatible with the rest of the system.

For example a looped 7' hose with a stage bottle mounted on the right hand side or a snorkel on you mask can cause problems with the hose getting caught.

In my case, on an IANTD Deep Air + Nitrox course I was disgusted at how difficult it was doing air share drills and securing a standard 40" octopus/backup 2nd stage when using a Jacket BCD. I had an instructor using a twinset on BP/Wwith long hose and bungee backup and was impressed with the ease that his gear config imparted to the same tasks. I started thinking about what I wanted from my gear. I did a lot of reading and watched the DIR3 video and found that the Hoarthian gear configuration made sense to me as a system.

So then I went to a BP/W when I purchased a BCD. I then found I was still never happy 'managing' standard recreational length hoses. So I bought new hoses 7' and 22" for my regs and suddenly underwater my hoses just seemed to disappear. I can deploy and stow the long hose without any effort and I always know exactly where the backup is. The 7' hose doesn't pull at my mouth. I practise deploying and stowing the long hose and swapping to the backup near the start of almost every dive because re-stowing the long hose is easy. With a 40" octopus on a clip I still find re-securing the reg to a clip a pain, and I can never lay hands on it without fumbling.

The 7 foot long hose 'just works' for me. I'm a fairly basic open water diver and don't have a canister light, so my solution was to tuck under the pouch I was already using on my right hip to hold my DSMB and spool. I didn't need to add gear to secure the hose - it was already there as I had needed the storage pouch and my wetsuit had no pockets. The interesting thing is that I ended up at the same point as Dan Volker suggests above.

Would a 5 foot hose work just as well for me - probably, I bought the 7 foot thinking that if it doesn't work for me I'll try a 5 footer instead. I never needed to find out as I like the 7 footer just fine. Though it might be an interesting experiment when time and funds permit.

Would a 7 foot hose be the optimal choice on a reg set which is loaned to students wearing a jacket BCD with nothing to easily tuck under and no experience or training with a long hose - unlikely. I can see a 5 foot hose being a better choice in this instance.

Two stages, one on each side - again this would interfere with the 7 foot hose routing and be less that optimal.

beanojones you've found that for your circumstances and considering the rest of your gear configuration a 5 foot hose works better. I don't doubt that you are correct. That doesn't make the 5 foot hose better for everybody. Nor does it make everyone using a seven foot hose a DIR zealot.

What does it all come back to - Matching the components you choose so that they work as a complete system and that your system matches your requirements.

Now, can't we all have a beer and get along?
:drunks:
 
I like 5' for single tank and 7' for backmount doubles


I'm not DIR or GUE but I've found that the 'classic' Hogarthian setup is a well thought out COMPLETE system.
Cherry picking individual parts of the system can cause problems when mixed with other items which are not compatible with the rest of the system.

For example a looped 7' hose with a stage bottle mounted on the right hand side... can cause problems with the hose getting caught.

Two stages, one on each side - again this would interfere with the 7 foot hose routing and be less that optimal

Not really, with AL40s it works fine, much like a can light. Of course if you unclip & reclip you need to make sure the hose is routed under the stage and not trapped, but that's just a matter of having a process & following it
 
I'm 5'3, 125lbs. I dive backmounted twins with a 7' hose, hoglooped. Normally, it's routed under my canister light, but on occasion, I've forgotten my torch. So, I just tuck the excess hose into the waist strap of my harness. No issues. It still deploys and re-stows easily. It is all about knowing how to use and route the hose properly.
 
And you don't have any issues with where the hose sits against the side of your head?

Which second stage are you using, because that obviously matters as well?

not really sure what you mean by issues. the hose sits flat around my neck.

I use a Zeagle envoy with a Dive Rite 90% fitting for comfort. without the 90% bend it tend to pull a bit on my mouth ( seem sort) and make long dives uncomfortable. when I switch off the long hose for deco or stage bottle use the regulator drops to the D ring on my right and can be clips off.


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