BP&W decision: DSS vs Hollis, online vs local

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wow, thanks much for your opinions and info... I thought DSS was well liked, now I know. I'm going to try to call DSS today to get the scoop.

as skankpile mentioned, DSS does not make an AL plate. does anyone know if you can put a DSS wing on other manufacturer's AL plates for travel and warm-water diving?

I cant answer your specific question sorry.

Travel and warm water diving usually mean a buoyant AL80 tank that being the case a SS plate would work better, your only talking about a 1.5kg weight difference between a SS and AL plate. If concerned about travel weight you could always consider the DSS kydex plate although I'm guessing Tobin would probably try and talk you out of that, unlike most business owners Tobin doesn't appear to be in the "make a sale at any cost" mindset.
 
I'm comparing three single-tank BP&W purchasing options:
You are making two decisions, 1) online vs. LDS, and 2) DSS vs Hollis. The online vs local decision is a personal, business decision, and all that people on SB can really do is share their own experiences and logic, with the choice being very individual. I made a conscious decision to buy my gear early on through a LDS. It happened to be the one I did OW through. My decision had less to do with specific support than it did with my preference to establish a personal relationship with a shop, as an investment in the future. That decision has paid off (very, very, very) handsomely. It is not just support for products, it is information (gleaned from from lots of informal conversation, not just a sales pitch), it is the chance to borrow (not rent) different gear from the owner or manager to try out before buying, it is the opportunities (e.g. they had a piece of close-out gear available at a great price and offered it to me first, rather than just putting it out on the floor on a first-come, first served basis), it is the availability of equipment / space for me to do my own service, etc. In fairness, I might have chosen another local shop and had a different / not so good experience. But, investing in a LDS relationship has been beneficial, for me at least.
mndiver:
However, I would prefer to buy from a LDS for possible future support. The shops here carry Dive Rite, Zeagle, Apex, Hollis and OxyCheq... however, they each essentially have one, maybe two actual wings in stock, so they seem pretty limited.
In reading your post, it does not sound like you have a relationship with a particular LDS, yet. I am not necessarily surprised that the number / selection of wings is limited. It would be more telling to know what kind of diving the staff - owners, managers, employees - do, and what the extent of their experience might be, and what kind of equipment they use. If you are looking at backplates and wings, and diving a drysuit, and what you see are people diving jacket BCDs and wetsuits (and there is nothing wrong with that at all), you might not be looking at a LDS that can give you the kind of support you will need in the long run. I need / want a LDS that is knowledgeable about diving in areas that are relevant to me. If I want to dive salt water shipwrecks, and all the LDS staff want to talk about is fresh water cave diving, the 'fit' probably isn't there.

You raise the issue of the price differential. While $130 sounds like a lot as a percentage of the purchase price, it may not actually be that significant in the context of a bigger, more valuable, longer business relationship. I would certainly discuss that differential with the LDS, and give them a chance to be competitive. But, if what I saw was an opportunity for a broader business relationship, I wouldn't let the $130 influence my decision. For example, I think I benefited in my dealings with my LDS because they realized that I was a customer willing to buy new gear, and willing to support them, and consequently they made considerable efforts over time to provide 'service' - not just support, but opportunity as well - in order to keep me as a customer. My first BCD was a Zeagle Ranger, and my first regulator was a Zeagle 50D. I paid what I thought was a fair price to the LDS. Could I have bought it for less money online? Certainly - I checked that before I bought the gear. But the extra $100 I paid the LDS (I am picking a number out of the air, here) for the BCD is insignificant in the context of what I have gained.

However, having said all that, I am not encouraging you to support a LDS just to 'support your LDS'. Support a LDS IF you think that such support will accrue benefits, beyond simply routine service of gear.

As for DSS vs Hollis, I don't have personal Hollis experience. I have dive buddies who do, and are generally pleased. I have personal experience dealing with DSS and Tobin, and with DSS gear (although not a DSS BP/W in particular). I am confident that you will not be disappointed at all with the a) design, b) production quality, c) performance, and d) before- and after-sale support from DSS. It is a first rate organization with first-rate gear.
Now I own my own drysuit and its time for a BCD appropriate for local fresh, cold-water drysuit diving (Lake Superior). My dive buddy who is much more experienced uses a BP&W and we both dive single AL 80s.
As a drysuit diver in cold water, I see steel cylinders in your future. Come to the light . . .
 
This is a good time for me to add that "Skankpile" is one of the funniest names on Scuba board.

That is all.
 
wow, thanks much for your opinions and info... I thought DSS was well liked, now I know. I'm going to try to call DSS today to get the scoop.

as skankpile mentioned, DSS does not make an AL plate. does anyone know if you can put a DSS wing on other manufacturer's AL plates for travel and warm-water diving?

We do offer a lightweight plate, the Kydex / Stainless hybrid. In most cases however you will be better served with a SS plate for warm water diving too.

We offer light weight plates primarily for divers that would be over weighted in the water with a SS plate, for example somebody diving steel cylinders with a 3mm shorty. Keep in mind that the dry travel weight difference between a Typical SS plate and aluminum or Kydex plates is about 3 lbs.

I'd be happy to walk you through your options when you call. Today is a bit of a scramble as the local (Long Beach) dive show starts tomorrow, but I should be in the office most of the morning.

Tobin
 
We do offer a lightweight plate, the Kydex / Stainless hybrid. In most cases however you will be better served with a SS plate for warm water diving too.

We offer light weight plates primarily for divers that would be over weighted in the water with a SS plate, for example somebody diving steel cylinders with a 3mm shorty. Keep in mind that the dry travel weight difference between a Typical SS plate and aluminum or Kydex plates is about 3 lbs.

I'd be happy to walk you through your options when you call. Today is a bit of a scramble as the local (Long Beach) dive show starts tomorrow, but I should be in the office most of the morning.

Tobin

yep, I left that part out Tobin as to my preference for AL...

I like the AL plates because I dive HP100's and they are already heavy enough. When I travel I usually dive a Meg ... so the AL lightens up my rig and bags. If you dive an AL80 then a steel BP is a no-brainer. With Tobins rig, it will lay a lot flatter in your bag as well with no STA and "pokey" bits.

If you have a LDS shop that only pushes vests.. then again.. Tobin's products and advice will get you on the right path to a BP\Wing and happier diving IMO.

"Skankpile".. that was an accident/brain-fart from 2000 and I went with it; as it turns out the name is always available on sites and forums for some reason...
 
You state a need for support..... What service are you needing for a BP/W? The only service item is the inflator which is a generic that is the same an about 90% of the BC devices world wide....... maybe a butt dump valve, but if you can't figure that out, I'm not sure you should own equipment....

I'd suggest a package (so you know it all fits together), but there are numerous opportunities to get it (DRIS, DGX, DSS, UDM, etc.). Find value.
 
The shops here carry Dive Rite, Zeagle, Apex, Hollis and OxyCheq... however, they each essentially have one, maybe two actual wings in stock, so they seem pretty limited.

It is a matter of economics--cash flow. They do not want to have a big unsold inventory on hand. They can order anything you want and get it pretty quickly.
 
I have a Hollis and a DSS so I can compare them both.

First off, Hollis changed their wings recently so is DRIS selling you the old wing or the new one? If it is the old wing then $570 is way too much. Leisure Pro and DGX was selling these wings for $200 as is Edd at Cave Adventurers. The plate, harness, crotch strap and cam straps should not cost more than $200 with a Hollis plate. With a generic plate I see it more like $150. So the Hollis setup should be under $400 with the old wing, complete including shipping.

Second, I do not have a Hollis BP to compare it to but the DSS backplate is an excellent design. You can add the plates and the glide adapter. The kidex plate cannot take these options so in my opinion it is not worth the price differential over an aluminum plate (I am sure others will disagree). While the weight plates are a good idea you could always add a weighted STA to a Hollis rig for more weight. Hollis also has other accessories like weight pockets and backplate pads which DSS does not, if that is important to you.

As far as the wings go they are both of similar quality (Hollis may even have the edge). The OPV touching the plate is a non-issue, my DSS 17 does the same. Hollis wings have a removable STA for use with a metal STA. DSS wings have it built in and some divers cut it out so they can use a metal STA (which is not necessary if using a 2 piece STA).

As far as service goes the question is what exactly are you looking for? Hollis does have a presence on this board also but DSS is far more active. Tobin has a reputation of providing service but there have been posts where he has not provided satisfaction and blamed the customer for the problem. Some of his biggest cheerleaders are Scubaboard moderators which probably get special treatment, so I would not rely heavily on their claims.

My advice is to give Edd a call at Cave Adventurers for a quote. You should not need to pay full list or MAP if you decide on the Hollis.
 
My LDS is a DSS dealer, so I bought my last DSS rig there. My LDS gets the sale, and I get great DSS support too.
 

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