PADI Master Scuba Diver - what does it give you?

[DevonDiver]

I'm not really sure why some people are so emotional about the issue of MSD rating.

Here in 'PADI Asia-Pacific' land, the card has been free for the last few years. I see that as a nice 'thank you' gift from PADI.. and it defeats all the 'put another dollar in' arguments related to the qualification. So, I guess you can accurately say that it is "worthless"... it is.

What does the diver get out of it? Well, apart from any personal satisfaction they may get from the merit badge "status", or recognition from PADI for being a loyal customer with a good attitude to training... they get an extra certification card that proves they possess a minimum of experience (50 dives), along with rescue diver training and several weeks worth of progressive training beyond OW level. Some might say that it is "handy" to have that evidence all collated onto a single card... it saves taking a handful of different cards on holiday... and proves a minimum dive experience (the dive count) if you don't have a logbook handy.

It's a recognition, a convenience, a "thank you"... nothing more, nothing less.

Maybe some people take issue because of the name. If it were called "Loyal PADI Diver", or "Sports Diver".. or any other name without the word "Master" in it, then I think there wouldn't be so much mockery of it. To be honest, I don't think that many people who carry that card place much emphasis on the word "Master"... they know where they stand... and probably better and more realistically than the majority of divers who haven't been as contentious about their scuba education...

When I see scornful posts by minimally qualified divers, who are boastful about their experience alone, I can't help but think what bad habits and sloppy procedures might exist. There is a place for experience. There is also a place for self-learning and development. There is also a critical place for taught education. All three components are vital in ensuring effective progressive development.

 

[TSandM]

I shouldn't imagine the OP is still bothering to read this . . .

I think you've probably figured out that "Master Diver", in the PADI system, is shorthand for someone who has completed a certain collection of classes. It's like having a Bachelor's degree indicate that you have earned so many college credits, and completed the requirements of a major. Like a college degree, the value of a "Master Diver" rating depends a great deal on the value of the classes that make it up. Unlike a college degree, you have to pay extra to get the Master Diver card, even though you have completed, and paid for all the classes and cards that lead up to it. This is one of the sources of disdain of the card, that it extracts another $35 or so from the diver, just for the piece of plastic that forms the summary.

The other group that disdains the card, disdains the quality of the training that makes up the required classes. And there is room for criticism -- some classes are taught to the bare minimum, and aren't worth much. Some instructors pass anyone who pays the class fee, regardless of their level of accomplishment, or lack thereof. This is why the card itself isn't worth very much, because the people looking at it aren't sure if you took some good, solid classes with lots of content and solid standards, or whether your boat dive specialty consisted of surviving two dives off a boat (as mine did!).

It is never a bad thing to see out more training and more information. Even if it's pretty skimpy training, you will almost certainly take away a thing or two to apply to your own diving (and sometimes that might be what you DON'T want to do!). Whether it's worth paying for a specific summary card or not is entirely up to you. I think you have gathered that the card does not enjoy much widespread respect.

 

[bbarnett51]

Training should always be encouraged. I achieved Master Diver aftrt 20yrs of experience diving and I learned a lot. I'm a better diver for it too.

 

[TMHeimer]

It brings nothing specific. It all depends upon you. If you choose 5 really solid specialties and really learn from them, then you will be a much better diver. If you choose 5 specialties that really don't teach you much of value, you will have a card but not much more skill. The card you get with it itself doesn't matter all that much.

Started TODAY with 66 posts! Just can't read them, as I've been away from internet service. Boulderjohn in post #1 says it best. I'm sure it has once again been discussed to death, compared to the great NAUI Master Diver, etc. Don't forget the "certificate suitable for framing" and POSSIBLE promotion backpack. But yeah, it's good if you take "good" specialties.

 

[Cave Diver]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

I've removed several off topic or snarky comments made after my previous mod post. If it continues to be an issue those involved may have their privileges to post in this forum revoked.

Keep it friendly, and on topic.

---

 

[Fish-R-Man]

If I'm not mistaken (someone please correct me if I am wrong here) I believe that SSI has a card similar to the PADI MD card. I also believe that they list the specialties on the back of the card that you have completed to obtain the card. The reason I believe that this is correct, I took an OW class with my wife with SSI a few years back when she started diving. We went to a shop in Key West that was SSI and the owner wanted to see our dive logs. The cert cards I have were in my log book and he asked to see them. He went ahead and had me fill out paper work for their MD equivilent card as I had the required courses completed to meet their standards. I don't have the card with me or I would check it out and see. It would be nice if an agency would issue a card with all levels of training a person recieved so that you would only have to carry one card. I just carry my AOW and Intro to Cave card. They seem to work fine for most of my diving.

If a new diver has the desire to obtain his MD card, I think its a good thing. It gives recognition for a completed task or goal. Even if it is $50.

 

[Simon-]

Actually, it doesn't. It says you have 8 specialties. It doesn't say which ones. I would be far more impressed with someone whipping out 11 cards that actually show me what they learned than 1 card which is a little vague.

Actually, it denotes that you have completed at least 5 specialties. The other courses it denotes are OW, AOW and Rescue

 

[mattoau]

I've only been a PADI pro for 5 years and in that time I have never seen an MSD card presented to me for proof of experience or training. Likewise in that time I have only certified one diver as an MSD. They came onboard my boat with 4 specs and rescue and completed an EANx course and paid extra to get their MSD cert.

Of all of the divers I've taught through OW to MSD, this diver was one of the most committed and dedicated divers I've had the pleasure to teach and supervise. Now with the obviously limted numbers I can't and never would claim that all aspiring MSDs would be the same.

From what I've read in this thread my main agreement is that an MSD taught solely by bad instructors will possibly be a bad diver. I know from my own AOW course how stupid it is to do a 10m square in 30m vis when you are amongst seven other students. I also appreciate that as the certifying instructor it could look bad upon me for signing off a bad diver as an MSD for the simple and final course required for an MSD, but what could I do of they were a terrible diver?

However, I've also worked with terrible DMs and instructors etc., and always treat all divers as unproven in all aspects until proven otherwise.

So to me, a diver producing an MSD card would only involve a different line of questioning as to their experience or ability when compared to an OW or DM diver, and they would still have to prove themselves in the water.

Standards require me to evaluate all of my divers, and that is what I do.

 

[DevonDiver]

...an MSD taught solely by bad instructors will possibly be a bad diver. ..

A diver taught solely by bad instructors will probably be a bad diver. That potential has no bearing on the worth of the MSD certification though - as it'd be wrong to assume that anyone who possessed it would be (1) a card collector or (2) un-discriminating in their choice of instructor.

To be honest, I'd be more inclined to assume that an MSD certified diver has learned to be more selective of instructors, purely through their greater exposure to the PADI educational system. I'm sure that some people go from OW to MSD with the same instructor, but many don't. In the course of their training progression, they get exposed to a variety of outlooks, preferences and teaching methods.

I've certified a handful of MSDs... normally people who come to me for a single specialty or rescue course, that happens to be the final requirement for MSD status. Because I work in Asia-Pacific, I can offer them the card for free. None of those people were 'card collectors'... all were competent divers.

I don't 'push' MSD to my students, as I'm focused primarily on technical training. However, I did start offering my own specialist emphasis MSD course (I select the courses) - which includes, Deep, Wreck, Nitrox, Intro-To-Tech and Sidemount. The end result is a damned fine diver - on a par, competence wise, with the same sort of capability I can create over a technical diving course.

 

[mattoau]

To be honest, I'd be more inclined to assume that an MSD certified diver has learned to be more selective of instructors, purely through their greater exposure to the PADI educational system. I'm sure that some people go from OW to MSD with the same instructor, but many don't. In the course of their training progression, they get exposed to a variety of outlooks, preferences and teaching methods.

I would assume that too. And no matter how much I would hope for the best, I would also plan for the worst. Hence my thoughts on diver evaluation.