Are you all just technical? What is technical?

[Them]

Another noob question.

On this forum there seems to be a theme of BP/W, "less mainstream" regulators, and so on. Of course as a noob I want to buy equipment that will serve me safely as I learn, and serve me well as I improve, so I'm curious about all this stuff. Especially since most of the shops seem to be dealers for particular brands and don't carry a lot of what gets talked about here.

So the other day I found a shop with a very broad range of gear. Neat shop. I started talking to one of the guys there, said I was part way through an OW certification and would be going out for my first non-pool dives this weekend, after which I was going to start picking up gear. I then asked a question that has been bugging me: "What's the deal with conventional BCDs vs. Backplates and Wings? It seems like when you go online and read the forums everyone is talking about how they switched to a BP/W set-up, but dive shops have stacks of BCDs and few if any backplates."

His reply: "The people on those forums are all technical. BP/W setups allow a lot of customization and they are great for travel or unique needs, but if you are just starting out you will be happier with a more conventional BCD."

He then showed me some Zeagle BCs that he thought were "A better starting point." Since one of my concerns was packability he demonstrated how it could fold up for travel. The Zeagle actually did look quite nice to my noob eyes.

So, was he right? Are y'all technical? If so, how does that relate to the folks recommending HOG regulators and the like? Is it all just "Pick your Koolaide"?

 

[TSandM]

No, we are not all technical -- nor is a backplate and wing "technical" gear! That's a pejorative (and it's interesting that the shops use it that way) term used by dive shop salespeople to dismiss an entire segment of dive equipment, usually because THEY don't sell it . . .

If you stop and think for a moment, it might make sense that the gear chosen by the people who do the highest risk diving, might also offer some significant benefits to people who don't do that diving.

My husband is a PADI instructor, and I DM for him. We dive backplates and long hoses -- we did so long before we got any technical training, but we are both cave and technical divers. What has been interesting is watching the students we teach. Although we don't discuss -- we don't even mention, most of the time -- the gear we're diving, by the time the students have done a couple of air-shares with us, they're eyeing the long hose/bungied backup configuration with great interest. And all of them who have had a chance to try our backplates have, if they have bought any gear at all, bought them.

One of my favorite sayings nowadays, whenever somebody tells me they're changing their setup, is: "We dive the gear we dive, BECAUSE IT WORKS."

Dive shops are in the business of selling the equipment they carry. I'm not sure they are always the best source of information.

 

[Them]

FWIW, this was the first store I've ever visited that had back plates and wings on display. As we were talking we were standing in front of a BP/W display, and they actually had a really wide selection of gear from a lot of brands that get mentioned positively here.

I was actually expecting a totally different answer when I asked the question.

 

[Crush]

First of all, read TSandM's response.

My two cents is that less is more. To that end I would always recommend a minimalist BC or a BP&W - just make sure the wing is the right size. Packing your gear for travel will be much easier.

I would imagine that the person you spoke with is unfamiliar with BP&Ws. They can be daunting to set up if you don't know what you are doing, so the salesperson would naturally gravitate to something with elastics, slides, and quick-release buckles. Your BC is not a backpack - it needn't fit you well when you are standing upright out of the water. It should, however, fit you like a glove when you are horizontal and in the water.

Welcome to SB!

 

[Paladin]

The selection of a BC is, when it comes down to the wire, a purely subjective choice. It does seem that there is an overabundance of advice that is tilted toward the BP/W setup. But that does not mean that a BP/W will work for everybody. It certainly did not work for me.

When I began diving, there was no such thing as a buoyancy compensator. We just weighted for the depth we planned to dive. I actually never even used a BC until 2009 and that was a horse collar I purchased from Divers Supply. The horse collar works well with some of my older gear, like my 1959 Aqua-Lung DA Aquamaster double hose regulator. My next purchase was a jacket style BC that I bought from TommyDSports. It was a rugged, well-made BC and I liked it.

Following all the advice about BP/Ws I read here on SB, I bought a new Dive Rite Classic Wing and a Dive Rite backplate. My oldest son liked the jacket, so I gave it to him. I dived the BP/W a few times and honestly did not like it. On the surface, the darned thing kept trying to push me face down in the water. I don't use a BC underwater and have yet to put any air in one while submerged. Old habits die hard, I suppose. Anyway, my only use for a BC is for surface flotation and the BP/W did not serve that function all very well at all. At least not for me.

I ended up selling the wing and bought an Aeris EX100 jacket BC. It's comfortable, has some nice features that I like and was affordably priced. For diving my more modern gear, the EX100 is perfect for my style of diving (purely recreational). For my doubles and vintage diving, the horse collar still works best for me.

The point I'm trying to make is, the choice of a BC is such a personal one that it is difficult to buy one based on the opinions, and experiences, of others. You may try a BP/W and love it. Or you may not. You might learn that, like me and many others, a jacket suits your diving style best. You may even end up owning two or three to suit whatever type of diving you plan to do on any particular excursion.

If you're thinking that you will be buying just one set of gear for all your diving, forget it! As time progresses, you find that most SCUBA divers quickly become infected with "gear-itis," a terminal illness that drives one to buy "just one more ____________ "(fill in the blank). Personally, I have regulators, tanks, wetsuits, etc. up to my eyeballs and am still always on the lookout for the next good deal.

I strongly recommend that you try a few BCs before you buy, to discover just what fits you and the type of diving you do most often. There is no law that says you can't buy a different type later on, if you find that you have a reason for it.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[nimoh]

The selection of a BC is, when it comes down to the wire, a purely subjective choice. It does seem that there is an overabundance of advice that is tilted toward the BP/W setup. But that does not mean that a BP/W will work for everybody. It certainly did not work for me.

When I began diving, there was no such thing as a buoyancy compensator. We just weighted for the depth we planned to dive. I actually never even used a BC until 2009 and that was a horse collar I purchased from Divers Supply. The horse collar works well with some of my older gear, like my 1959 Aqua-Lung DA Aquamaster double hose regulator. My next purchase was a jacket style BC that I bought from TommyDSports. It was a rugged, well-made BC and I liked it.

Following all the advice about BP/Ws I read here on SB, I bought a new Dive Rite Classic Wing and a Dive Rite backplate. My oldest son liked the jacket, so I gave it to him. I dived the BP/W a few times and honestly did not like it. On the surface, the darned thing kept trying to push me face down in the water. I don't use a BC underwater and have yet to put any air in one while submerged. Old habits die hard, I suppose. Anyway, my only use for a BC is for surface flotation and the BP/W did not serve that function all very well at all. At least not for me.

I ended up selling the wing and bought an Aeris EX100 jacket BC. It's comfortable, has some nice features that I like and was affordably priced. For diving my more modern gear, the EX100 is perfect for my style of diving (purely recreational). For my doubles and vintage diving, the horse collar still works best for me.

The point I'm trying to make is, the choice of a BC is such a personal one that it is difficult to buy one based on the opinions, and experiences, of others. You may try a BP/W and love it. Or you may not. You might learn that, like me and many others, a jacket suits your diving style best. You may even end up owning two or three to suit whatever type of diving you plan to do on any particular excursion.

If you're thinking that you will be buying just one set of gear for all your diving, forget it! As time progresses, you find that most SCUBA divers quickly become infected with "gear-itis," a terminal illness that drives one to buy "just one more ____________ "(fill in the blank). Personally, I have regulators, tanks, wetsuits, etc. up to my eyeballs and am still always on the lookout for the next good deal.

I strongly recommend that you try a few BCs before you buy, to discover just what fits you and the type of diving you do most often. There is no law that says you can't buy a different type later on, if you find that you have a reason for it.

Good luck and have fun!

never putting air in your BC intrigues me, but I'll start a new thread

 

[chrpai]

It really ticks me off everytime someone says that a BP/W will face plant them all the time trying to act like they know what they are talking about. That simply isn't true.

If the OP ever comes down to Austin I can show him what a stainless steel back plate and wing is all about.

Oh, we already had the arugment with him on not putting air in his b.c. Basically he ditches weight and then puts it back. Sure, that's better then a BP/W any day...

 

[diversteve]

If the "neat shop" is Scubatoys - in about 10 years they've never steered me wrong. If it's not you owe it to yourself to go there.

I've been diving for awhile - last 10 years with a Zeagle and I do all right. I'm willing to trade a little optimal performance for comfort - in my case I don't even own a wetsuit - so after several PM's with Tobin of DSS - here on SB - a few years ago I decided a BP/W wasn't the right solution for me. Having dove both jackets and back-inflate BCD's I have a preference for back-inflate since I don't personally like the squeeze effect of some jackets. Other's do as they like floating more vertically at the surface. Proper front/back weight distribution makes that a non-issue for me.

I personally think you should buy what you like, what fits (most important) and consider everyone's opinion - including mine - from their perspective. Sometimes it helps to view their profiles/signature links to get a sense of if they dive like/where you plan to. Obviously a cold water cave diver will have very different requirements than a warm water cruise diver.

Since you sound like travel is in your plans, a less bulky back-inflate (Stiletto, Wicked Lite, Express Tech) from Zeagle seems like a good option. Or a bp/w as they're very packable also - esp. if you remove the wing. For me that's too much like work.

IMHO we as divers sometimes overestimate "streamlining'. Not that it isn't good to be as efficient as possible but I really question how much more drag a BCD wing has over a BP wing when you consider that most divers have a flat mask, often a snorkel, console or other danglies hanging from them - and big flat fins - creating drag. In my case I push a big square video housing thru the water also so any drag reduction is seriously lost on me. I think most wetsuits - also contribute to drag. Seals and dolphins are pretty slick...

Also this is a scuba forum so we tend to get caught up in the minutae of optimizing all our gear - gives us something to do when we can't dive...

Almost everything currently on the market is safe and works for somebody.

 

[nimoh]

Oh, we already had the arugment with him on not putting air in his b.c. Basically he ditches weight and then puts it back. Sure, that's better then a BP/W any day...

well, to each his own, but anyone not using a BC probably isn't in a position to offer advice to someone looking for a BC

 

[boulderjohn]

I am pretty much a BP/W diver myself, but I still have an old back inflate BCD that I used to use for single tank diving. I would not hesitate to use it again. With the weight trimmed out between the trim pockets and the hip pockets, it makes for a very comfortable dive. Before I had that, I used a Zeagle Ranger, and I thought it was good, too.

The only exception I take to the original advice you got is the implication that BP/Ws are only for technical diving. They aren't. But that does not mean they are the best thing for everybody.