Should I buy a pony bottle?

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A Jetsream tends to free flow at low pressure. A Cyclon should have no issues whatsoever, and I am not sure about the X-Stream, but suspect it will be similar to a Jetstream.

There are a lot of myths out there about Poseidons, but most are crap . . . they are one of the best regulators out there, and the choice of many Navy and commercial dive teams who aren't in the habit of buying either junk or dangerous gear.

- Tim

Thanks Tim,

I have a Mk3/Jetstream for my single rig. I've got another Xstream also.
I remember reading something about the tank pressure having to at least be what the I.P. for the 1 stage is, but I wasn't sure what the result would be......I never breathe my tanks down low enough to worry about it.

I like the Poseidons, I just made sure I bought the Mk3 versions, so I could use regular hoses.

My wife is a Poseidon fanatic..she has Cyclons, Jetstreams, and Xstreams.

She jokes about my Dive Rite regs, and claims the most reliable emergency gas source is to have a dive buddy close by that's diving Poseidons. :)

-Mitch

* Now that Jax introduced Spare air into the thread:Kissy:.........I think they should print "I can't plan dives" on the side of them. :gas:
 
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I am presently traveling internationally with a 19cf pony. You have to remove the valve and then replace it when you get to the destination. No big deal. I recommend removing it at home, and plugging the pony with the plastic plug that should come with the tank when you buy it. If not some wide masking tape will do. You might also want to carry a little spot of O2 compatible grease to put on the threads of the valve if needed. Added luggage weight will be an issue to think about. I carry two bags when I travel and Scuba anyway, so I just balance everything between two bags, (50 lbs each) and I am good to go. Being instabuddied on a trip is something that can be unavoidable if you want to dive at your destination. I believe that any reasonable advantage that you can give yourself in that situation is a good one. Granted you should never include this bail out in your gas management plan, but that is not what it is for. There are situations that come up (becoming violently ill under water and needing to purge regs repeatedly for instance) when your dive planning and gas management plans suddenly become skewed. I have been in this very situation and having a bailout will give you peace of mind, and freedom to purge. In my case I never actually had to switch to the pony, but having it as a back up allowed me to focus on my immediate issues.
 
What bothered me about this is not how he's using the stage bottle, but using 32% gas as a backup. If for some reason you're forced to an unexpected depth and run out of back gas you increase the risk O2 seizure.
So now I should get certified for mixed gases in case I exceed rec limits? Most of my diving sites have a hard bottom of no more than 130' and if I had to, 32% will not kill me on the way to the surface. Hell if I go deep enough regular air is toxic.
 
Do you have any reference for that piece of information?


That a reg will not deliver any air below 140 psi above ambient pressure?

Anyone else know anything about this?

It is really a very important consideration if the last 3% of your air supply is completely unusable?

Anyone have a reference for this information?
 
You know, breathing off the free-flowing regulator was way easy. That would not be a problem for me at all. Hm, well, I guess the main concern there is how long it would be before the air were exhausted altogether. Is this an easy-to-calculate number? I imagine it varies by depth...?

My understanding is that there are too many variables. Air is consumed faster at depth, yes - but also different divers use air at different rates (my SAC is about 22 litres a minute on average, and my wife is about 19). The same diver will use more air when exerting himself, or panicked, etc. I as looking at a profile graph of a recent dive (depth vs SAC) and I could see where some nervousness I was feeling at the start eased off and my consumption lowered. And of course the one big variable is how long you are into the dive at the time the free flow occurs.

I think from what I have read you only have a minute or minute and a half at most of air in a standard full tank if freely flowing.

My buddy and I practice air sharing, buddy ascents and so on on the way up at least once every day on a multi-dive day. We make sure to ascend with plenty more air than we need. I've learned I use circa 20bar going up including a stop, and the standard here is to be back on the boat with 50 in the tank. So we ascend on 80 bar to be extra conservative, and plan a turn around pressure accordingly (the half wy point between the starting tank pressure and 80bar). I'm detailing this because I'm at a similar experience level to you so it might be interesting to hear how we go about it. We are in the habit of regularly checking in about our pressures too.

One good tip I learned here was to get in the habit of guessing what your pressure should be before checking. I believe this habit is helping me get a gut feeling for it faster than I would otherwise.

It really does seem to me that if cared for and serviced properly the gear we all use is extremely safe and reliable. It does seem that the most likely reason you will run out of air is if you plan poorly or don't stick to your plan. And even if it all goes pear shaped, sharing air is not a technically demanding skill. This is one thing I feel pretty relaxed about, actually.

Now, if I can only get relaxed about removing my mask! For whatever reason, this is one little thing that freaks me out irrationally. It's how I'm spending time on my safety stops - taking the damn thing off and on again until the day comes when I don't dread it so much :) I guess we all have our particular fears! Losing my mask and/or a runaway ascent are my two nervous scenarios, so I'm putting extra thought into ascending without holding the line and mask drills. Why don't you ask your next buddy to run a quick air share drill at the start or end of your next dive/s? Doing it over and over and seeing how easy it is might help relax you.

For now, I wonder if a pony bottle is a 'gear solution to a skills problem' as the old salts seem to put it.
 
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You know, breathing off the free-flowing regulator was way easy. That would not be a problem for me at all. Hm, well, I guess the main concern there is how long it would be before the air were exhausted altogether. Is this an easy-to-calculate number? I imagine it varies by depth...?

Matt, I admit to not knowing the answer to your question.

However, when you tried breathing off a free flowing regulator in the pool did your instructor have you check your pressures before and after? It is usual that during the 30 second free flow anywhere from 300 psi to 400 psi are lost. There is not going to be a lot of time available, but enough to deal with the situation, either breathing off it during an ascent or getting assistance from a buddy. Of course the time obviously depends on the pressure remaining in the tank when the free flow started.

It was a good question, and validates some of the points I bring up with my students. The key point to take away is that a free flow is something that can be dealt with insitu, not something to "panic" over.

Bill
 
That a reg will not deliver any air below 140 psi above ambient pressure?

Anyone else know anything about this?

It is really a very important consideration if the last 3% of your air supply is completely unusable?

Anyone have a reference for this information?

I cannot speak for all the regs but it is at least not true for diaphragm zeagles apekses and DH USD

The first stage is open until the IP raises enough to overcome the spring pressure. Then it closes. So the first stage is normally open.

If the second stage is balanced all you need to do to open it is to have enough cranking pressure on the lever which makes no difference whether the reg is pressurized or not.

After all I can breath through my reg when it is not connected to the tank and no Icannot create 140psi with my lungs
 
That a reg will not deliver any air below 140 psi above ambient pressure?

Anyone else know anything about this?

It is really a very important consideration if the last 3% of your air supply is completely unusable?

Anyone have a reference for this information?

My Scubapro Mk7 (Honker) stops delivering useable gas to the primary at around that pressure because the honker oscillator seats and blocks the flow. The alternate is unaffected. Good to know if you are ever in a share air situation with one.
 

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