Fatality Cabo San Lucas March 3

[daniel1948]

Someone above mentioned the certifying agencies, and that got me thinking: PADI calls all their certified shops "PADI Five-Star." There's apparently no such thing as a "Four Star" PADI shop. Why doesn't PADI require that any shop that wants to use its name, must use an in-line CO analyser or buy fills only from fill stations that do?

Here's an idea: To be called a PADI Five-Star shop, they would have to sell fills ONLY from fillers using an in-line CO analyser. Otherwise they become a PADI Three-Star shop. They could still certify divers, but would lose two stars.

I dive maybe once or twice a year, and those analysers have to be checked (calibrated?) every year, by a process that, as I read the dealers' web sites, sounds complicated. I don't mind checking my nitrox for O2 using the dive operator's testers. I wouldn't mind checking for CO the same way. But I'm not sure I'd have total confidence in a tester that I buy, and which sits in my closet for a year between dive trips, and which I (with no training) do the check on each time, apparently with a can of test gas that I buy through the mail.

OTOH, it does seem as though checking for CO is critical.

 

[DandyDon]

Someone above mentioned the certifying agencies, and that got me thinking: PADI calls all their certified shops "PADI Five-Star." There's apparently no such thing as a "Four Star" PADI shop. Why doesn't PADI require that any shop that wants to use its name, must use an in-line CO analyser or buy fills only from fill stations that do?

Here's an idea: To be called a PADI Five-Star shop, they would have to sell fills ONLY from fillers using an in-line CO analyser. Otherwise they become a PADI Three-Star shop. They could still certify divers, but would lose two stars.

I dive maybe once or twice a year, and those analysers have to be checked (calibrated?) every year, by a process that, as I read the dealers' web sites, sounds complicated. I don't mind checking my nitrox for O2 using the dive operator's testers. I wouldn't mind checking for CO the same way. But I'm not sure I'd have total confidence in a tester that I buy, and which sits in my closet for a year between dive trips, and which I (with no training) do the check on each time, apparently with a can of test gas that I buy through the mail.

OTOH, it does seem as though checking for CO is critical.

An interesting idea for Padi. The problems seems to be that they are not proactive on the subject. They are there for training only it seems, but if you get an idea as how to make them proactive - great.

Now DAN is supposed to be proactive about day to day diving. They didn't address the risk much before, but seem to be coming around.

The personal CO analyzers are easy really. Pocket CO does sell a calibration kit so you can cal it for every trip, but the Analox has field cal. Dial it to zero, blow in it to make sure it works as everyone's breath has a few digits of CO, then go. Some of the manuals need updating really but then this is a fairly new deal.

 

[Ayisha]

Someone above mentioned the certifying agencies, and that got me thinking: PADI calls all their certified shops "PADI Five-Star." There's apparently no such thing as a "Four Star" PADI shop. Why doesn't PADI require that any shop that wants to use its name, must use an in-line CO analyser or buy fills only from fill stations that do?

Here's an idea: To be called a PADI Five-Star shop, they would have to sell fills ONLY from fillers using an in-line CO analyser. Otherwise they become a PADI Three-Star shop. They could still certify divers, but would lose two stars.

PADI got out of the air quality control business two years ago and I really doubt that they will take on that liability again. DAN started to step up a couple of months ago, at least for Cozumel, and I hope that they will continue to expand and increase their support of continuous CO monitoring and investigation into this silent killer.

 

[bleeb]

More for the collection.

DM says he also felt unwell

Sunshine Dive's manager denies they filled the tanks. (Can't remember whether someone's already reported that, in this thread.)

 

[Hawkwood]

... Actually I am curious why this story is getting as much press as it is, so much more than many others similar? ...

What is your criteria for "getting as much press as it is"? I find this to be a curious comment.

You post many reports of diver deaths from newspapers - any reason why you would think this be any different?

Back in late January a woman from Calgary was severely beaten at a hotel in Mazatlan. That incident was the "tipping point" regarding Mexico, safety, etc., and there as been significant coverage regarding vacations and travel to Mexico in the media.

 

[Graeme Tolton]

More for the collection.

DM says he also felt unwell

Sunshine Dive's manager denies they filled the tanks. (Can't remember whether someone's already reported that, in this thread.)

A cash business certainly gives plausable deniability.

Another question that ought to be asked is what was the mix in the tank? It is not outside the realm of possibility that the owner of the tamks added his own o2 to a tank with oil residue, causing a flash and increased co levels, then topping off at said shop. Once again, dificult to prove.

 

[Ayisha]

Text for posterity:

Dive master with Calgary woman who died in Mexico says he also felt unwell (with video)

Calgarian reluctant to elaborate on events of fatal Mexican outing

By Clara Ho, Calgary Herald March 8, 2012

• Caribbean Dreams Diving shop owner John Harcus at his Calgary store. He says it is quite rare, but possible, that carbon monoxide can get into dive tanks and that if it happens, the results can be deadly.
  
  CALGARY — The dive master who was scuba diving in Mexico with a Calgary woman before she died described feeling dizzy and unwell while underwater, but maintains he doesn’t know what led her death.
  “I was dizzy in the last three or four minutes of the dive. I was having a super strong pain in the chest. I wasn’t really aware of anything,” said Jorge Duchateau, adding he had little strength when he surfaced.
  However, the diving instructor with Conquest Divers declined to elaborate on the events that preceded the death of Ronda Cross.
  “Of course, I feel terrible. I feel this is a tragedy for the family, for Ronda,” he said. “I just don’t want to point at anyone right now before I have some information from the authorities.”
  Ronda Cross, 41, was diving Saturday with her cousin, Roxanne Amundson, and the guide at a depth of about 23 metres off Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, when Cross appeared to be overcome due to carbon monoxide in the scuba tanks, said her family, who blame faulty rental equipment.
  Amundson also reported feeling ill after the dive.
  The Mexican publication El Sudcaliforniano reported that Cross died of asphyxiation by drowning. Her family said she was an experienced diver who had 200 dives under her belt.
  Cross did not surface with the guide or her cousin, said her family, saying her floating body was pulled out of the water by the crew of a nearby boat.
  The guide declined to divulge where he got his tanks filled.
  The family has named Sunshine Dive and Charter as the company that filled the tanks, which manager Jonatan Montes de Oca has denied.
  “It’s unfortunate what has happened, but I have no idea why our name is being affiliated,” he said, adding authorities have not approached him. “We are definitely talking to a lawyer to see what can be done.”
  Meanwhile, Cross’s body was returned to Calgary Wednesday afternoon, said her husband, Colin Cross.
  A funeral will be held Saturday in Elkford, B.C., where the couple lived part-time.
  Colin said he’s been frustrated with the lack of information about the investigation into his wife’s death.
  “We haven’t heard a thing from the police at all. It’s just driving me crazy,” he said.
  Colin, also an experienced diver, said in addition to the company that filled the tanks, the dive master should be held accountable for ensuring the tanks’ air quality.
  He said he’s considering taking legal action.
  But the main thing is to get the message out for other divers to be careful, Colin said, adding: “Ronda would want this to not happen again.”
  Members of the local scuba diving community are saddened by the news and say carbon monoxide poisonings in scuba diving — if confirmed to be the case in Cross’ death — are rare.
  
  
  “This is a fairly uncommon situation and a very unfortunate event,” said John Harcus, owner of Caribbean Dreams Diving in Calgary.
  A scuba compressor puts out Grade E breathing air, which is a Compressed Gas Association minimum standard for input into a scuba cylinder, he said.
  “The only way this (carbon monoxide poisoning) could likely happen is if a vehicle or boat had its exhaust running and the intake of the compressor was in close proximity to that exhaust,” Harcus said. “That could happen if the wind would change or if the compressor was too close to a source of exhaust of an internal combustion engine.”
  To protect themselves, divers should always seek a reputable dive shop, many of which employ instructors certified by the Professional Association of Diving Instructors, and ask to see the qualifications of those responsible for filling the tanks, Harcus said.
  Cathie McCuaig, executive director of the recreational non-profit Alberta Underwater Council, based in Edmonton, also recommends that divers look into purchasing carbon monoxide testers if they have concerns or are diving in an unfamiliar area.
  She agreed with Harcus that these incidents are very uncommon, but can occur due to poor maintenance, poor positioning of the compressor or if the intake was too close to the source of a contaminant, like a motor.
  As well, the air in a tank should be odourless and tasteless so as soon as someone tastes or smells something, the dive should be aborted immediately, McCuaig said.
  Cross’s father-in-law, Dennis Cross, hopes to see procedures changed at all dive shops.
  “You have carbon monoxide detectors in boats and homes. Why can’t every tank before it’s put on a diver’s back be checked?” he said. “It would be a simple procedure. It would have saved a life.”

The accompanying video states that "preliminary toxicology reports indicate that Ronda's oxygen tank was full of carbon monoxide..."

 

[DandyDon]

What is your criteria for "getting as much press as it is"? I find this to be a curious comment.

You post many reports of diver deaths from newspapers - any reason why you would think this be any different?

Back in late January a woman from Calgary was severely beaten at a hotel in Mazatlan. That incident was the "tipping point" regarding Mexico, safety, etc., and there as been significant coverage regarding vacations and travel to Mexico in the media.

Yeah, maybe my thinking outloud was not relevant. Just curious.

 

[Graeme Tolton]

I find it interesting that a dive shop owner thinks that the only co gets into a scuba tank is from placement of intake. That is most certainly one way, but compressor maintenance and location of compressor is just as much of a problem. The compressor must stay at a proper operating temperature, or the oil can combust much like a diesel engine.

One reason synthetic oils are used in compressors is that they have a higher flashpoint and are less likely to combust in an overheated compressor.

 

[Dive-aholic]

If CO was the issue wouldn't depth have also played a role? My understanding is that the CO becomes a (more urgent) problem because of partial pressures as you go deeper. IE if the tanks were contaminated by a previous fill but only dived to 10 feet for golf-ball recovery or something, would it be feasible to have not noticed any effect but then noticed something in a subsequent deeper dive, to say, 60 feet?

Not necessarily. In the October Cozumel incident our maximum depth was 40'. Had we gone deeper Brendan would probably have passed out sooner, but the result would have been the same.

and the official coroner report from here in cabo put the cause to drowning.

I wonder if they tested for CO. In Cozumel in October they did and the level was so elevated the coroner deemed the cause of death as drowning secondary to CO toxicity. This makes me think there were other issues.

I dive maybe once or twice a year, and those analysers have to be checked (calibrated?) every year, by a process that, as I read the dealers' web sites, sounds complicated. I don't mind checking my nitrox for O2 using the dive operator's testers. I wouldn't mind checking for CO the same way. But I'm not sure I'd have total confidence in a tester that I buy, and which sits in my closet for a year between dive trips, and which I (with no training) do the check on each time, apparently with a can of test gas that I buy through the mail.

OTOH, it does seem as though checking for CO is critical.

The Analox analyzer is very easy to use. As Don stated you field calibrate it. That's as simple as setting the display to 000 using the calibration knob and blowing into it to make sure it changes to 001 or 002. You can also buy a can of calibration gas that contains 10 ppm CO to check it every few months. Also very easy to use. No training required. Don't let ignorance be a reason for not buying one.