Are we over obsessed with Wing lift accuracy?

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Ok so wings now come in 18,20,26,30,35,40 etc etc and there are people on this board who specialize in calculating to the exact decimal how much lift you would need (YES that means you Tobin ). My question is if all this math is really needed? Can we not just guesstimate how much lift we need and buy a wing a little bigger (just in case?). It seems that some of us feel that there is some kind of Zen involved in having the exact BCD lift and not a tad more. The argument is that extra bcd lift creates unnecessary drag. While in theory that may make some sense but I am trying to understand how much drag in water can 5 lbs of extra lift make? I have never come across a diver who came back on the boat after a long dive and said "You know I am so exhausted after this dive because my Wing just had 5 lbs more lift capacity then I actually needed. I mean people have all kinds of pockets in their drysuits which should mess of your hydro-dynamics a lot more than a little more of that stream lined bladder. Right or wrong? I how much of a difference would it make if you carry 5 or even 10 lbs more of lift then ahem ... wing lift calculators calculate for you?

So is there anyone on this board who has suffered an enormous drag for carrying extra lift ... please raise your hand and tell me your horror story.

 

[TSandM]

I don't think anybody is suggesting that a wing that's five pounds too big is an issue. Shoot, I dove a 30 lb wing in Hawaii for a couple of years, before I got a small, tropical one.

What people get exercised about is the person who buys a 60 lb doubles wing to dive with Al80 single tanks . . . or the person with the 90 pound double wing. In either case, you will have taco problems and venting problems and a lot of drag.

When you CAN optimize lift by downsizing, I can tell you from personal experience that it makes for a really lovely dive. Some of the most effortless and delightful cruising I've done underwater was using the DSS 17 lb travel wing with a thin wetsuit and an Al80. It's almost as though you don't have gear. One of my only regrets about going universally dry for diving is not being able to use that little wing any more.

 

[Kern]

People are allowed to be into whatever they like. I you like wings that are big enough to do the job, but have the smallest area for the bubble to move around, the right shape for ease of bubble controle, etc, that's fine

If you're not into such stuff, thats fine too.

PS. I think the whole drag thing is ....... well, just a drag.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Ok so wings now come in 18,20,26,30,35,40 etc etc and there are people on this board who specialize in calculating to the exact decimal how much lift you would need (YES that means you Tobin ). My question is if all this math is really needed? Can we not just guesstimate how much lift we need and buy a wing a little bigger (just in case?). It seems that some of us feel that there is some kind of Zen involved in having the exact BCD lift and not a tad more. The argument is that extra bcd lift creates unnecessary drag. While in theory that may make some sense but I am trying to understand how much drag in water can 5 lbs of extra lift make? I have never come across a diver who came back on the boat after a long dive and said "You know I am so exhausted after this dive because my Wing just had 5 lbs more lift capacity then I actually needed. I mean people have all kinds of pockets in their drysuits which should mess of your hydro-dynamics a lot more than a little more of that stream lined bladder. Right or wrong? I how much of a difference would it make if you carry 5 or even 10 lbs more of lift then ahem ... wing lift calculators calculate for you?

So is there anyone on this board who has suffered an enormous drag for carrying extra lift ... please raise your hand and tell me your horror story.

Drag is only one component. Oversized wings are harder to vent, and are less stable. Consider 7-8 lbs of gas in a 17 lbs wing vs a 7-8 lbs in a 40. Which would you expect to be more stable?

Many of my customers are seeking a wing they can use for cold water at home and warm water on vacation. If the wing is carefully selected for cold water then it has a better chance of performing satisfactorily in warm water.

I routinely tell my customers that if they plan to dive only cold water that a slightly oversized wing will be no problem.

In addition a big part of the wing sizing exercise I typically go through is to help new divers understand weighting, a subject that is seldom thoroughly examined in entry level courses.

Tobin

 

[buddhasummer]

I don't think anybody is suggesting that a wing that's five pounds too big is an issue. Shoot, I dove a 30 lb wing in Hawaii for a couple of years, before I got a small, tropical one.

What people get exercised about is the person who buys a 60 lb doubles wing to dive with Al80 single tanks . . . or the person with the 90 pound double wing. In either case, you will have taco problems and venting problems and a lot of drag.

When you CAN optimize lift by downsizing, I can tell you from personal experience that it makes for a really lovely dive. Some of the most effortless and delightful cruising I've done underwater was using the DSS 17 lb travel wing with a thin wetsuit and an Al80. It's almost as though you don't have gear. One of my only regrets about going universally dry for diving is not being able to use that little wing any more.

Ditto on the small wing, I dive an 18lb on my travel rig and it's my favourite as you said its like diving without gear.

 

[Kern]

Didn't someone recently post that they'd just discovered that very small wings lack the pontoon effect, & are therefore inherently unstable when trying to maintain a motionless, horizontal state.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Didn't someone recently post that they'd just discovered that very small wings lack the pontoon effect, & are therefore inherently unstable when trying to maintain a motionless, horizontal state.

That claim has been made, but when you look at the typical configuration where a 17 lbs wing is appropriate it's pretty hard to see how. Most 17 lbs wing send up being used for tropical diving, i.e. 3mm wetsuits and al 80's. A full 80 just doesn't weigh very much, ~2 lbs negative, hard to see how that's going to be much of a problem in terms of stability.

In addition for a properly weighted single tank diver there will be point in the dive where there is almost no gas in their wing. Regardless of the amount of tank wrap how do these folks remain stable?

Our users haven't reported any problems.

Three factors work against brands offering a wide range of wing sizes.

1) If they are manufactured by others, and most are, there is the issue of minimum manufacturing runs, and # of each to stock.

2) Most Dive shops won't stock every size, and many are ill equipped to size wings any way. That leads to "the one we have in stock is the one you need"

3) CE marking. Inflatables sold in the EU need to be CE marked. That expensive and required for every model, fewer models, few CE tests.

Tobin

 

[VooDooGasMan]

As tobin mentioned when using a cold wing in warm you can easily make it happen, I use the rec wing for single tank, and in warm when properly weighted It has very little air in bladder. I myself would like to have more lift to be able to lift someone or something. Also lift me on the surface a bit higher for Captain to see me easier.

 

[cool_hardware52]

As tobin mentioned when using a cold wing in warm you can easily make it happen, I use the rec wing for single tank, and in warm when properly weighted It has very little air in bladder. I myself would like to have more lift to be able to lift someone or something. Also lift me on the surface a bit higher for Captain to see me easier.

Larger wings don't really lift the diver higher out of the water, any portion of any bc that's out of the water provides no buoyancy because it displaces no water.

Comfort at the surface is mostly a function of proper weighting.

Tobin

 

[Rhone Man]

I see it as being like wetsuits. If I am renting or borrowing, I am fine to grab something that is roughly the right size.

If I am buying, I'll take the time to work out what the optimal size is.