Is "the first rule of Scubaboard is that you don't talk about Scubaboard?"

[endurodog]

Seacobra I have been in agreement with lots of what you have said about recommending it to people and made my point about that and the negative element here(more so than other discussion groups I visit). In reference to your post on the SR1 issues I am one that had posted in that forum with problems with that unit. I was able to get some resolution with the rep only after posting there, emails were going unanswered. I have not looked at the threads in about 2 months but up till that point lots of the concerns that were posted there were true. To be fair in the end I even posted that the company took good care of my concerns.

 

[Dan G]

I've mentioned SB to plenty of people either @ my LDS or @ a dive location. I never get a negative reaction, but the most common reaction I do get is, "Yea, I'm on SB but I never post."

For a land locked vacation diver such as myself, SB has been a fantastic lens into the world of diving. I never understood the wide variety of diving styles and philosophies that existed before frequenting SB. I have also learned a lot about how to become a better recreational diver, and I felt that I was much better prepared for our last trip because of SB.

I only personally know a handful of people on SB, and when I am having a hard time filtering through the static of a thread, I just call, Skype or PM one of those people to get an opinion I know I can trust.

 

[-hh]

...If {someone is critical about XYZ} then you are going to be challenged about that....Unfortunately, there are some bad and sad things that happen in Scuba. I think it would be remiss if we did not allow discussions about these types of things here on ScubaBoard. Personally, unless there is a reckless disregard towards human life, I will never ever identify a particular dive shop when I have a problem. I did it twice in the last few months: Does Peggy Work at Your LDS? and What would YOU do if the First Mate on your charter was a Gilligan? Mind you, people actually GUESSED who these dive ops were. The accuracy was astounding in one case. Why? Did I give a little clue here or there? I must admit that I did. I accurately described what happened and some people knew precisely who it was because they had THE VERY SAME THINGS HAPPEN TO THEM. That's not my fault. That's theirs for not fixing problems. It was kind of funny, but recently I had a call from a friend telling me that "Peggy is at it again!" Wow. After all the crap they gave me for talking about them anonymously, they still haven't fixed a thing.

It's my experience that most of the shops that complain about the negativity here on ScubaBoard are their own worst enemies...If it's not working for you, it's probably because you don't have a phreakin' clue how to use Social Media to your advantage. The upside of this is that there is help. You can learn a lot about social media marketing in our Business to Business section.

Two good comments in here - - one for regular folks and one for businesses. This started 25+ years ago with USENET and BITNET and continues on SB: the Internet as a tool has dramatically broadened the public's information reach. The implications for a business is that pre-information age techniques for "hiding" poor customer service are far less effective - - gone are the days when you could tell a dozen customers "Gee, you're the FIRST person that this problem has ever happened to!", and when you get caught now, it won't be for just the problem, but also for lying to your customers.

Sometimes there's a reason to ... I've actually had my livelihood threatened from a ScubaBoard member who I frequently disagree with here. Fortunately, he was unsuccessful ...

That's the fault of the person, not the medium. Years ago on BITNET, I had a shill for one of the dive computer manufacturers try to come after me for daring to criticize their product. Fortunately, bringing more sunlight onto these sorts of events usually results in more negative publicity than the original complaint ever would have.

I have picked up a ton of good information on SB....I selectively talk about SB to those that I think will understand the dynamics.

All online information sources are a double-edged sword. One can be concerned that providing "too much" for someone who is going to misapply it, but elements of confirmation bias are going to happen regardless of how many cautions one may try to invoke. About the best advice to apply here is to mind that no one should rely on just one resource...even if it is the established Agencies.

"There isn't any accountability. If someone "grinds their axe" about a particular company or product, there isn't any follow up. I have seen where some good folks have had mud slung their way."

Yep, many a manufacturer, LDS, charter, or member, on this board and some who aren't has had someone make a negative comment about them. In nearly everyone I've read, Members or Mods have come in to challenge the statements; requesting sources, data, and other info for verification.

This is really where the 'Democritization' of the Internet as a medium kicks in: bogus claims do get called out by virtually anyone (and everyone!) and even if the individual axe-grinder never personally comes clean, the record - with all its challenges - is there for others to read. This has been happening on the web for a long time ... back in 1995 was the infamous "JennyTRR" slander of Bruce Bowker's Carib Inn, which was perpetuated by a fired employee (and subsequently caught).

Heck, I frequently talk about ScubaBoard both with other members I see and with divers that I meet in my travels. I try to promote it when I meet a diver who is not a member. I had no idea I wasn't supposed to talk about it. Was that buried somewhere in the TOS?

Those TOS's can be tricky things ...


-hh

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That's the fault of the person, not the medium. Years ago on BITNET, I had a shill for one of the dive computer manufacturers try to come after me for daring to criticize their product. Fortunately, bringing more sunlight onto these sorts of events usually results in more negative publicity than the original complaint ever would have.

... which completely misses the point. Dan was suggesting that everyone should be logged in under their real name. My point is that sometimes people don't want their real name out there because other persons will use that information in inappropriate ways.

For example ... I know you only as "hh" ... there is nothing in your profile about you personally ... not even a gender specification.

I daresay the "shill" you mentioned didn't come after you ... he came after your internet persona ... which makes you a perfect example of the point I am making ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[-hh]

... which completely misses the point. Dan was suggesting that everyone should be logged in under their real name. My point is that sometimes people don't want their real name out there because other persons will use that information in inappropriate ways.

For example ... I know you only as "hh" ... there is nothing in your profile about you personally ... not even a gender specification.

Well, in the interest of slightly less nondisclosure, the hypen before the hh is a historically significant portion of my handle...although it was purely by coincidence that it was later discovered that that little search engine upstart that we now call Google chose to use a hypen prefix as a logical "NOT" search term, which makes data mining on me a bit more difficult.

In any case, I dropped public use of my firstname years ago originally with the intention to be an easy (translation: lazy) way for myself to key in on who was a close friend versus some random person off of the Internet. Of course, my SB profile does have my personal homepage linked to it, which in turn has my IRL name on the frontpage for those who have looked.

I daresay the "shill" you mentioned didn't come after you ... he came after your internet persona ... which makes you a perfect example of the point I am making ...

I didn't bother to go into the gorey details, but it did happen to occur back I was posting under my IRL full name. As such, it was your first point ... risk of inappropriate use ... is what applies.

In any case, the main flaw that I've seen with Dan's "everyone use IRL names" suggestion is that having this information still doesn't prevent a determined party from nevertheless choosing to deny or stonewall, even when a topic's facts are objectively clear and as plain as day...unfortunately, some people simply don't like to ever admit that they were in error.


-hh

 

[danvolker]

Well, in the interest of slightly less nondisclosure, the hypen before the hh is a historically significant portion of my handle...although it was purely by coincidence that it was later discovered that that little search engine upstart that we now call Google chose to use a hypen prefix as a logical "NOT" search term, which makes data mining on me a bit more difficult.

In any case, I dropped public use of my firstname years ago originally with the intention to be an easy (translation: lazy) way for myself to key in on who was a close friend versus some random person off of the Internet. Of course, my SB profile does have my personal homepage linked to it, which in turn has my IRL name on the frontpage for those who have looked.




I didn't bother to go into the gorey details, but it did happen to occur back I was posting under my IRL full name. As such, it was your first point ... risk of inappropriate use ... is what applies.

In any case, the main flaw that I've seen with Dan's "everyone use IRL names" suggestion is that having this information still doesn't prevent a determined party from nevertheless choosing to deny or stonewall, even when a topic's facts are objectively clear and as plain as day...unfortunately, some people simply don't like to ever admit that they were in error.


-hh

HH, back i the days of rec.scuba , what had been a great fun place to talk scuba, ended up being destroyed by all the sock puppets and trolls with fake names.... I am sure you remember the evolution of this well.

It's kind of sick the way some people will act when they can say things via a "pretend personality and alternate existence".
Anyway, glad to see you posting here !

 

[SeaHorse81]

what had been a great fun place to talk scuba, ended up being destroyed by all the sock puppets and trolls with fake names....

It's kind of sick the way some people will act when they can say things via a "pretend personality and alternate existence".

Dan, you are absolutely right about how some people can hide behind fake names to do things they wouldn't have the courage to do (or would have the integrity not to do) if everybody knew who they really were. However, the sad reality of today's world is that identifying oneself online can have problem consequences far beyond the realm of the forum where one does it.

There are lots of possible personal reasons to play it safe that have to do with real world security, and have nothing to do with using anonymity as a screen for bad behavior. That's why you don't know who I really am. I'll reveal my identity on a private board with a limited number of people whom I've had reason to come to trust, but never on an open forum like this one. Sad, but necessary.

 

[SeaCobra]

Dan, you are absolutely right about how some people can hide behind fake names to do things they wouldn't have the courage to do (or would have the integrity not to do) if everybody knew who they really were. However, the sad reality of today's world is that identifying oneself online can have problem consequences far beyond the realm of the forum where one does it.

There are lots of possible personal reasons to play it safe that have to do with real world security, and have nothing to do with using anonymity as a screen for bad behavior. That's why you don't know who I really am. I'll reveal my identity on a private board with a limited number of people whom I've had reason to come to trust, but never on an open forum like this one. Sad, but necessary.

wow, this is one of the sides of this that I hadn't thought of completely. I respect and support your need for privacy, just a sad commentary. I remember a post by Doppler alluding to being cautious about his posting out of concern of future liability, especially someone of his credentials. Things that make you hmmmm...

 

[BDSC]

Last year a group of us (about 16 I think it was) went to Little Cayman. So during one of our surface intervals I brought up ScubaBoard. Most had not heard of ScubaBoard but some had and two of us were members. I told them they should at least check it out and see if it's something they might be interested in. Of course a couple of the folks said they didn't have time to jump on the internet and do that sort of stuff and that's cool. But those very same folks will post several times a day on Facebook.

I think one of the most valuable resources on ScubaBoard is the trip reports. I wish more folks would write them and I need to do a better job myself doing just that posting both the good and the not so good or areas where a resort or liveaboard could improve.

 

[The Chairman]

It's kind of sick the way some people will act when they can say things via a "pretend personality and alternate existence".

What's the real difference between rec.scuba and ScubaBoard? Follow up. Moderation is the reason why we never became rec.scuba II. Who sets the standard for moderation on ScubaBoard? The users! They follow up on problematic posts by reporting them and then our cadre of volunteer moderators review each and every report. Sometimes we discuss them but often the course of action is obvious to the mod who claimed the report. No, we don't always move at the speed of light and some of our users get quite impatient and strident even while we are discussing options. That's OK. We're not going rush things and miss doing what's right in the name of expediency.

Case in point, when the discussion arose about follow up, a user PMed me to express his concerns that nothing had been done about his report. When I went to the back room to see, there was already a discussion about it and I believe the next day a decision was made and the post he was concerned with was either edited or deleted. The system works and for the most part we are a kinder, gentler ScubaBoard because of it. Does that mean we are perfect? Nope, but we are working on it and actively listening to our users to make it better. The users have a direct say in what they find problematic via the report post, the suggestions and the feed back forums. We invite everyone to do their part in policing our community to keep the trolls in check. Think of it as a Cyber Community Crime Watch!