Geting Paid to Dive in Cozumel

[scubawife]

Dear Scuba Wife,

At least in Mexico it IS illegal to pay people with un reported income, either independent contractors (in the US you get 1099 forms) or direct employees without the government's ability to receive taxes and make social security payments. Just like the US, these taxes pay for social services as well as fixing pot holes in the streets.

This question was asked multiple times in other threads and I only responded to the inquiries. And yes, I am proud that we take care of our people and help keep the pot holes filled.


Those businesses that do not do so, are in violation of civil and criminally laws.



Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

Thanks, Dave. Yes, in the US companies should and are supposed to issue a 1099 to anyone who does work for them, but I can tell you that doesn't always happen. When I get paid by a client, it's up to them to issue me whatever forms are required on their end. It's up to me to report my income and pay my taxes on it. They don't follow up on me, and if they don't send me any forms, I don't follow up on them. It's up to them to deal with it if audited on their end.

Doing contract and project work vs being a full-time employee, it's up to me to file taxes and pay what I owe. It's also up to me to find my own medical insurance and fund my own retirement account. There are plenty of contractors here who don't do either.

In Mexico, if someone is paid as an independent, is it not up to them to declare their income and pay whatever taxes would be owed on it? What I've read about IMSS seems to indicate that anyone who is a legal resident of Mexico can buy into it, it doesn't have to be funded through an employer.

WSOPFAN
I never knew there were shops that actually paid anyone as regular employees. I thought they all were paid cash as independent contractors. Unfortunately very few were savvy enough to save any money during high season as most just blow it away partying. I think it would be very interesting to find out what employees get paid at a shop that charges say $60 for 2 tank dives -vs- a shop that charges $90 for the same. I would guess that until now almost nobody ever thought about these things before going to Cozumel. Just curious if anyone would actually choose a shop that paid their employees well -vs- say a shop they found out pays theirs crap and keeps most of the money. I think some shops would cringe at the fact of that info getting out......

Whatever a DM chooses to work for and the arrangements they acept, I feel, is between them and their employer and none of my business as a customer. I would never as someone what they make, how they're paid, if they get benefits, etc. If I choose to dive with a $90 shop and feel I get my $90 worth, then I'll dive with them. How much of my $90 goes to the DM, Captain, crew, gas for the boat, tank fills, water & fruit, etc, etc, doesn't concern me. It's none of my business what their cost is and what the profit margin in, or how any of the costs or profits are allocated.

 

[Mike]

Thanks, Dave. Yes, in the US companies should and are supposed to issue a 1099 to anyone who does work for them, but I can tell you that doesn't always happen. When I get paid by a client, it's up to them to issue me whatever forms are required on their end. It's up to me to report my income and pay my taxes on it. They don't follow up on me, and if they don't send me any forms, I don't follow up on them. It's up to them to deal with it if audited on their end.

Doing contract and project work vs being a full-time employee, it's up to me to file taxes and pay what I owe. It's also up to me to find my own medical insurance and fund my own retirement account. There are plenty of contractors here who don't do either.

In Mexico, if someone is paid as an independent, is it not up to them to declare their income and pay whatever taxes would be owed on it? What I've read about IMSS seems to indicate that anyone who is a legal resident of Mexico can buy into it, it doesn't have to be funded through an employer.

I think the truer USA >> Mexico analogy to this whole thing is more along the lines of workers comp. A USA company misclassifies a worker and avoids paying WC to save money / have lower prices. Same thing is going on in Mexico, except it sounds like their insurance closer to WC is their social security. Dive shops misclassify their DMs or avoid everything totally with under the table and they have no SS coverage. The DM gets hurt and he's sh*t out of luck, like Gabi at Scuba Mau.

Whatever a DM chooses to work for and the arrangements they acept, I feel, is between them and their employer and none of my business as a customer. I would never as someone what they make, how they're paid, if they get benefits, etc. If I choose to dive with a $90 shop and feel I get my $90 worth, then I'll dive with them. How much of my $90 goes to the DM, Captain, crew, gas for the boat, tank fills, water & fruit, etc, etc, doesn't concern me. It's none of my business what their cost is and what the profit margin in, or how any of the costs or profits are allocated.

Let's face it, nobody here is probably going to change who they dive with no matter how long this discussion goes on. I personally will dive with whom I do and I will avoid those whom I do. To me it's not about the difference between a two dive operators that charge $5.00 a tank less, that just comes down to one of em gives you cookies on board, maybe the other one gives you a back rub. I'm personally disgusted with the low-ballers, the ones skirting the legal issues, the ones at the bottom who destroy the market and reputation for others, I know that anybody who cuts corners to sell on price is just as sure to cut corners with his employees as he is with his customers safety,... you name it, basically eventually nothing becomes sacred to them, it's just a downward slippery slope. Personally I can afford to pay somebody a little more for what I percieve rightly or not to be a better value to me, when I die I won't be laying on my death bed wishing I had any of my money back in my wallet.

Nothing directed at you scuba-wife, just rambling in general based on what your comments brought to my mind. But you're right, most of this is not going to move any farther than this forum.

 

[scubawife]

Dive shops misclassify their DMs or avoid everything totally with under the table and they have no SS coverage. The DM gets hurt and he's sh*t out of luck, like Gabi at Scuba Mau.

I doubt there is a DM on the island who is getting paid as a contractor and doesn't realize that means that a social security/national health care contribution is NOT being made on their behalf. If you aren't getting a cheque with some record of deductions,etc., then you aren't getting the benefits. If that's important then they'll go to a shop who pays that way.

With worker's comp, it's for on the job injuries. Gabi's accident wasn't on the clock guiding a customer dive. No workers comp in the US would pay out for a dive master getting injured off the clock, and especially not while choosing to make the dive that trio did. Really, not making a judgement here. We've all made bad choices in our lives at some point, and we're all human, but in that case, I think that even in the US you'd be s.o.l to get anything out of worker's comp on this one.

The dive shops that cut that many corners, in Cozumel or anywhere, tend to eventually cut themselves right out of business.

 

[boulderjohn]

Yes John, I am sure that Aldora is top notch. How is that a rebuttal to...?

:silly:​

Sometimes you pay more but don't get more; sometimes you do.

Starting a thread with a quote is sometimes a way of setting the context. It does not mean what follows is a rebuttal.

 

[Mike]

I doubt there is a DM on the island who is getting paid as a contractor and doesn't realize that means that a social security/national health care contribution is NOT being made on their behalf. If you aren't getting a cheque with some record of deductions,etc., then you aren't getting the benefits. If that's important then they'll go to a shop who pays that way.

The problem is sometimes we aren't talking about super educated professional fields here, like doctors, accountants, project managers and such, but blue collar workers who don't make the best financial decisions. Do you really want to operate under the guise of 'employee beware'? a scenario where employers make the rules and we rely on them all to just do the right thing, and if they don't well then it's "I guess the employee should have known better?" I don't think you'd go for that for a second, but that's what it sounds like you're saying.

With worker's comp, it's for on the job injuries. Gabi's accident wasn't on the clock guiding a customer dive. No workers comp in the US would pay out for a dive master getting injured off the clock, and especially not while choosing to make the dive that trio did. Really, not making a judgement here. We've all made bad choices in our lives at some point, and we're all human, but in that case, I think that even in the US you'd be s.o.l to get anything out of worker's comp on this one.

I'm not in Mexico or that familar with the laws, but according to what's been posted their SS does work this way regardless, but it's all conjecture at this point.

The dive shops that cut that many corners, in Cozumel or anywhere, tend to eventually cut themselves right out of business.

Usually, but by the time it does there is usually a whole lot of collateral damages to other legitimate businesses and workers. And again, I can't imagine you'd condone this "eventually they'll just go out of business anyway" as how it should be. I don't think you'd go along with it if it was actually applied as the principal method of controlling employers. I can think of a million scenarios where you'd probably raise quite a stink if you were personally effected and were told - eventually they will go out of business so don't worry about it.

 

[Thalassamania]

Like "Fair Trade" Coffee perhaps a "Fair Trade" DM program is called for.

 

[Christi]

I never knew there were shops that actually paid anyone as regular employees. I thought they all were paid cash as independent contractors. Unfortunately very few were savvy enough to save any money during high season as most just blow it away partying. I think it would be very interesting to find out what employees get paid at a shop that charges say $60 for 2 tank dives -vs- a shop that charges $90 for the same. I would guess that until now almost nobody ever thought about these things before going to Cozumel. Just curious if anyone would actually choose a shop that paid their employees well -vs- say a shop they found out pays theirs crap and keeps most of the money. I think some shops would cringe at the fact of that info getting out......

I don't know what your objective is here - but I can speak for myself and several other shops when I say that we operate legally and pay our staff accordingly. Like Dave and many others, my staff is insured, are on the books as employees with all benefits the law provides them. You would cringe at the amount we pay in IMSS (Social Security), INFONAVIT (housing opportunities), 2% each month of the salaries of our employees - but we do it. My staff has the option of private medical insurance or IMSS/INFONAVIT - they choose the latter because of the benefits they receive when they can no longer work and for the housing benefits. It's very similar to SS in the US.

I am one of the shops that has a higher price point, but in reality, my pricing is not that much more in the grand scheme of things. Some ask why my prices are higher than shop X, Y or Z - I can only answer here that I know what my bottom line is and what it takes to operate my operation and to provide the services/amenities I do. My staff is paid well, they are insured, and they receive benefits under the law and then some - but as Scubawife said - this really is not an area that we are obligated to discuss with our divers. Do you ask to check the books, employment records, etc. of every service provider you do business with?

On the same note, I am also extremely fortunate to have the staff I have. My principal staff (Pedro Pablo, Mago and Santos have all been with me for 8+ years - that speaks for itself I think. My other staff members have been with me for a couple of years and I look forward and expect that they will be with me for years to come.

 

[Thalassamania]

... but as Scubawife said - this really is not an area that we are obligated to discuss with our divers. Do you ask to check the books, employment records, etc. of every service provider you do business with?

It is not unusual, when bringing a group somewhere, to require of all service providers, written certification that all such legal requirements are met as well as copies of the licenses and certifications or all personnel.

 

[cvchief]

maybe the other one gives you a back rub.

Wow. You get a back rub? :shocked2: Well I am demanding one too from my op from now on!!!

 

[deepstops]

I am demanding one too from my op from now on!!!

If we all demand it, it will become the new standard