Horrible Customer Service Experience

[cool_hardware52]

It's important, especially for the manufacturer, to see the issue from the OP's perspective, regardless of how one feels about the situation. The OP states he's been using wings for over a decade (he's GUE Cave 2 since 2001, so hardly someone unfamiliar with such gear) and had his first bladder failure earlier this year. He sends his wing in and pays the $50 replacement cost (plus shipping both ways). He gets it back and before he does even one dive on it, he notices another bladder failure (which he's asked to pay *another* $50+shipping to fix).
Sure, it's certainly possible (and even probable) that this is just a case of really bad luck. The OP went several hundred dives without any wing/bladder issues, but had bladder failures back to back. Is it possible Tobin missed something when he shipped the wing back or the bladder was damaged in shipping?

We date code our bladders. The OP originally purchased the wings in early 2010. He first returned the wing about 2 months ago. We replaced the bladder with a new bladder with a 2011 date code. After the OP had possession of the wing for 2 months he again returned it with another obvious pinch flat. The damaged bladder had the 2011 date code. The damage is *exactly* where one would expect it to be if a back plate was dropped on the wing.

To suggest that we changed his original (2010 bladder) with a new 2011 bladder and somehow pinched it before we returned it to him, or replaced his bladder with a damaged 2011 bladder is really a stretch.

If we had indeed returned a wing with a hole in it why does it take 2 months for this to be discovered?

We test all wings, new and repaired before shipment. We *know* how to package a wing to prevent damage in shipment, and this wing was returned by itself, no back plate was even in the same box.

How does a wing suffer the exact damage one would expect from dropping a plate on it, when it is packaged in a box without a back plate? Beats me. Space aliens maybe.

Something is happening to these wings *after* they leave DSS, and throwing free parts at the problem won't solve it until that *something* is changed.

All wings suffer pinch flats. If you doubt this then why does every reputable wing offer replacement bladders for sale?


Tobin

 

[Bhtmec2]

We date code our bladders. The OP originally purchased the wings in early 2010. He first returned the wing about 2 months ago. We replaced the bladder with a new bladder with a 2011 date code. After the OP had possession of the wing for 2 months he again returned it with another obvious pinch flat. The damaged bladder had the 2011 date code. The damage is *exactly* where one would expect it to be if a back plate was dropped on the wing.

To suggest that we changed his original (2010 bladder) with a new 2011 bladder and somehow pinched it before we returned it to him, or replaced his bladder with a damaged 2011 bladder is really a stretch.

If we had indeed returned a wing with a hole in it why does it take 2 months for this to be discovered?

We test all wings, new and repaired before shipment. We *know* how to package a wing to prevent damage in shipment, and this wing was returned by itself, no back plate was even in the same box.

How does a wing suffer the exact damage one would expect from dropping a plate on it, when it is packaged in a box without a back plate? Beats me. Space aliens maybe.

Something is happening to these wings *after* they leave DSS, and throwing free parts at the problem won't solve it until that *something* is changed.

All wings suffer pinch flats. If you doubt this then why does every reputable wing offer replacement bladders for sale?


Tobin

Can we all just be Friends

 

[mdb]

Almost 3600 views regarding a $50.00 service charge-very interesting indeed.

The OP, who seems to be a very experienced diver with BPW units had two failures in a row.

It does seem that the OP has a legit question.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Almost 3600 views regarding a $50.00 service charge-very interesting indeed.

The OP, who seems to be a very experienced diver with BPW units had two failures in a row.

It does seem that the OP has a legit question.

Two failures proves exactly what?


What specifically would you, an industry professional, propose to as the best way to prevent additional failures?


Tobin

 

[Scott L]

I am a Halcyon loyalist, but acknowledge Tobin's tremendous contributions to our great sport with his offerings of time tested rugged equipment. Keeping this thread open and recycling the same information over and over is patently unfair and should cease IMHO. In the spirit of Ronald Reagan, "Tear down this thread"!!!.

 

[mdb]

Two failures in a row does seem to indicate there is a problem. Perhaps the problem is with the user as you imply.

It does not seem like the OP is unreasonable, In fact, he sounds quite reasonable, just questioning why he had two back to back failures.

To prevent additional failures it might be just what you are doing, staying public and getting feedback
from SB members.

I have used inner bladder and BPW design BC's many times. I never had a "pinch". It does not mean it does not occur.

Perhaps the upside of this thread is that folks learn a bit more about various designs and the care that they
should take with their equipment.

 

[Cave Diver]

I think it's reasonable to expect that DSS performed the repairs and the wing was in good condition when it left.

I think it's also reasonable to expect that an experienced diver who hasn't had any previous problems with a wing would be frustrated by having two such issues in a row.

A pretty good case has been made for how such damage may occur, but the big question is when did it occur, and in whose care was it in when it happened? Unfortunately for the OP, since it took two months for the issue to be discovered, the burden of the responsibility would seem to be on them. Had the damage been in the same place as the original work, a case might be made that the repair wasn't performed properly. But considering it was new damage in a different location that doesnt apply.

Two months ago, I shipped the bladder to them and paid for a replacement bladder. I had not used the wing until I took another trip to Cozumel at the end of July.

I think one of the biggest take aways for anyone reading this thread would be to verify any repairs immediately upon receipt. If it arrived damaged, then perhaps a claim could be made against the manufacturer or the shipping company. Two months later there is no credible way to determine where the issue occurred and it becomes a case of he said/he said.

 

[SC_Hoaty]

Note that there was no repair - it was a replacement. See post # 111.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Note that there was no repair - it was a replacement. See post # 111.

The original bladder was replaced, as we do not repair bladders. It is not unreasonable to say the wing was repaired by virtue of having the bladder replaced, and the entire assembly tested.

I don't know of any reputable wing maker that repairs bladders or even recommends repairing bladders. (vs replacement)

Most divers using wings will never pinch a bladder, but every make of wing is subject to such damage if the wing is mishandled.

Many wing makers actively market how easy it is to access the bladders in their wings in event the bladder is damaged.
All reputable wing makers that I am aware of offer replacement bladders *because* bladders do occasionally get damaged.

Tobin

 

[Linedog]

The wrist seal tore on my Apollo drysuit, I dont know how, do I get a free repair? From what I have read I believe it was the OP's fault. I rode a bicycle for many years and had many flats, pinch flats only happen one way, getting pinched. $50 replacement sounds fair to me, my two new wrist seals were more than that. And who in the heck gets a repair back and does not check it first thing?

P.S. I changed from latex seals to neoprene.