DMs working for free - can it be good for the customer?

[DevonDiver]

Hi guys,...

My initial comment wasn't whether being a voluntary DM was good for the DM. It was whether it was good for the customer.

Yes, the DM concerned may be motivated to dive. But will they be motivated to put the customer first? What about safety issues?

I get the feeling that the concept may work well in the USA market. Especially where those DMs work weekends, but have a regular 9-5 during the working week. I did a simular internship course in the UK (military officer, doing DM internship at weekends for 18 months).

However, the market in places like Cyprus (and Asia...and, I imagine Mexico) will be quite different. Cyprus is a 'party place'... Bars, booze and sex. There's a lot of temptation to go wild there.

If you're volunteering as a DM, then essentially you are there for the free diving and the lifestyle. There must be temptations for the DM to dive when hung-over. That's not good for the customer. Neither is it good for the customer if the DM is having to work in a bar job until 2am... then having to wake at 6am to take customers diving...

If you are there for the diving, but not paid, then there may also be temptations to be selfish and put your own agenda before that of customer safety. After a few dives on the same site, you get bored and want to explore more, explore deeper etc. I think that this is an issue that leads to DMs taking customers on dives beyond their qualifications and comfort zones etc.

At the end of the day... if you're not salaried for a job, then you have nothing to lose if you are fired. If that's the case, where is your motivation to put the job first, and yourself second?

I don't know where you read that. This comment says more about you than it does about dive pros in Cyprus.

It wasn't a description of Cyprus dive pros... it was an illustration of what could happen.
The advert does say "ideal for gap year students".
If you've been to Cyprus, then you'll know precisely what the 'lifestyle' is like for the gap year students that work there... in the bars, as holiday reps etc
It's also something I've encountered with some (note: "some") gap year DMs working in Asia...

 

[TMHeimer]

DevonDiver, I agree with you totally. Though still not a DM, I have a strong opinion. Our DMs here get paid, be it not a whole lot. The DM I dived with in Panama got paid per boat or shore dive, though he also worked construction. Apparently DMing in the U.S. for free is more the rule than the exception. The ad may be tempting--free room and unlimited diving (is that just diving for fun or WORKING as a DM with the responsibilities of customers, I must ask?). I am a musician who loves to perform--but unless it's for a close freind at his party, it's never for free-- and it wasn't 36 years ago when I was 20. We all love diving. If you are a pro, I feel you should not do it (work) for free. As you pointed out, maybe I'll be slack or hungover--what the heck, nobody's paying me so what's the big deal. I personally feel it comes down to a form of self-worth. If you are a dive pro, or ANY pro, you should get paid SOMETHING since you studied hard and have something to offer. How much more pay than merely "something" gets into supply/demand, unions, etc. Doing it for free, I feel, hurts the profession (that word is overused), other DMs, yourself, and quite possibly the customer. I think I am in the minority.

 

[diversteve]

I think it can be good for both parties. My friend who is a DM often plays rescue dummy. She lets them find her, get her to the surface, then tries her best (within reason) to fake panic and drown them on the tow in. Gives the shop's rescue class participants a more realistic rescue experience.

I've been on a DM-escorted trips (required in Maui and Grand Cayman - shop rules elsewhere) where I wanted to do a different dive than the others on the boat. If I find something of interest to film I've been known to hang around for 15-20mins. to do so. The shop(s) providing a DM for me allowed the others and me to get the dive we wanted.

How many people have ever gone to (paid) work hungover? Why do you think it would be different for a paid DM? Who might get fired if he/she doesn't show up after being out all night. In some cases that may mean having to leave the country. I think I'd prefer a volunteer DM decide not to go work that day - their shop might be a little more lenient since they don't have a financial commitment to fulfill. Everytime I've worked a paid job where there's volunteers, we're more appreciative of the hours they give.

 

[LynnB]

If I could turn back the clock in age I would have done it for free for the experience. I really was hoping my son would go that route after college just for the life experince.
Sometimes there are adventures that you can't put a price on!

 

[Bob DBF]

My initial comment wasn't whether being a voluntary DM was good for the DM. It was whether it was good for the customer.

I guess it's as good as a DMC acting as a DM being paid nothing, seems the customer is in the same spot.

Yes the DMC is in "training", but the DM now is in training to work under actual conditions and to realise the paying jobs go to Instructors.

As in any business, the customers needs are irrevelant if the business can't stay open.

Whether it is good for the customer depends on the DM regardless of other factors.

Bob

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Divemasters working here in Louisiana and in many of the other parts of the country do it pretty much for free.

....

I have had good DM's on boats when I travel and of course tip accordingly. I also tell my new students that the people helping on the boat are divemastering for experience, training etc. and to not only leave a tip but thank them for good service.

My experience in the Florida Keys and in Hawaii is that the persons who are DM-ing on the dive charters are mostly instructors, are mostly paid employees and are not DM-ing for experience, so a blanket statement like the one underlined above seems really silly, even for dive charters made only in the US.

When I did my post instructor certification, con ed, "Resort Pro" course with Ocean Divers (10 years ago), my boat DM training trip was to the Duane wreck, and I was the only DM for that trip, even though I was not an employee. One of the buddy teams was a landlocked instructor with his inexperienced girlfriend, and we also had the Course Director teaching AOW with the current DM candidates "auditing."

The "girlfriend" followed her instructor "boyfriend" through the straight, clear, mid ship, swim through passageway, and ended up with her mouthpiece disconnected from her primary. She bolted for the surface in a panic, without venting any air from her BC, followed by her bf, and the CD. She "breached" the surface like a baby whale, and was quickly brought to the boat by her two rescuers.

The AOW students and DMC's were left on the deck of the Duane and one DMC did alternate ascent with one low on air AOW student, while a Rescue certified customer did alternate ascent with another of the DMC's who was low on air. That Rescue diver was also an EMT from Fort Collins, CO, and he took over as first responder, delegating duties to the Captain, CD and myself. We were met at the dock by an ambulance that took her to the local chamber.

I know for a fact that Ocean Divers changed policy at that time to always have a paid employee acting as supervising DM, even when a "Resort Pro" instructor/student was doing their DM trip. Not exactly sure about current Ocean Diver policy, but I find it hard to believe that with the sue-you nature of the western world you will find many US dive charters that are DM'd by non-employees of the charter company.

 

[Gilldiver]

In the North East US, the mates on the boats are DM’s but don’t hand hold you in the water unless you pay for it. Their main job is getting you into the water, out of the water, and working the boat. They work for the boat trip, maybe free air, and tips. Typically a mate/DM will set and pull the hook or get one long dive while the customers are on their surface interval.

The guys I know who did DM’ing in the Caribbean in the late 80’s and 90’s were unpaid slaves who got:

Free room & board
Got up at 6AM to get the boats ready
Did 2-3 dives a day as traditional DM’s
Unloaded the boat
Filled the tanks for the next day
Did any maintenance on the boat, compressor, or in the shop that needed to be done.
Got off between 8 and 10 at night

The guys also got tourist tail, a friend who worked in diving on Grand Cayman for 3 or 4 years told me the rule was that any unattached woman guest was hands off till Wednesday afternoon, if she didn’t hook up with another guest by then she was open game for the DM’s and shop boys. He told me that it was a rare week that he didn’t have a “friend” or two, or three. I remember him saying that “when they come out onto a sun deck of hang around the shop or boats in a skimpy leather bikini they aren’t there for diving in the ocean.”

But he also said that not many can keep up for more than a few months. He lasted because he met his future wife after 6 months and moved from working on the boats and doing daily dives to running the boats and managing the DM’s

So you may need to add sex into the equations, and we know 20 something guys will do a lot for it.

 

[KY]

I saw THIS advert in the classifieds section today. I've never actually seen a dive centre that expected DMs to work for free, although I guess it must happen (probably a regional thing?).

I just can't get my head around how this is a positive thing for the dive industry and, in particular, for the customer/diver.

Surely, such 'initiatives' under-mine the professionalism of DMs? How can an 'employee' truly be motivated if they have no reward system for working?

What sort of 'dive professional' would be happy for an 'opportunity' like this? Surely not someone with any high standards or long-term career intentions in the dive industry?

Drunken gap-year dive pros...

Mate, down this neck of the woods its not uncommon due to the amount of divers coming through, for DM's to have to PAY to work for a shop. The only money coming from tips and "bonus's"

 

[rivers]

I saw THIS advert in the classifieds section today. I've never actually seen a dive centre that expected DMs to work for free, although I guess it must happen (probably a regional thing?).

I just can't get my head around how this is a positive thing for the dive industry and, in particular, for the customer/diver.

Surely, such 'initiatives' under-mine the professionalism of DMs? How can an 'employee' truly be motivated if they have no reward system for working?

What sort of 'dive professional' would be happy for an 'opportunity' like this? Surely not someone with any high standards or long-term career intentions in the dive industry?

Drunken gap-year dive pros...

To me, the reward is an opportunity to work for a while in basically a diver's paradise. So there's no money, but maybe it's something with my generation. We don't always do things for the money. We do it for the experience. The past 7 years has pretty much been a "gap year" for me, just picking up and moving to various parts of the States for work, making anything from $150/wk to $400, housing and food not included, to spending the past 3 years working on a cruise ship floating around the Caribbean. In a month, I'm packing up all my stuff and heading off to London. For the first time in a while, I will actually be "settled".

Just because there is no money in an opportunity such as this, doesn't mean the DMs that get hired will not be "professional". Maybe it's the particular group of people I surround myself with, but if things like this pop up, we do it for the experience of it all. Life is for living. It's not always about the money, but what you've done.

 

[HIGHwing]

I'm really surprised the IRS doesn't see this as a simple method of tax-evasion. I work in the field of Professional HR services, and I would NEVER allow a client of mine to advertise or "hold-out" a job in which an exchange of goods or services occurs in lieu of a legal wage.

Someone is acting "in the performance of duty" [work] off the clock or without wages in exchange for "gifts, discounts, free training" [income] at a place of business [employer's direction]. Employers have obligations, especially where the "performance of duty is specified and expected".

Though a salient argument could be made about whether W2 vs 1099 would be most appropriate for a DM, I find it difficult to understand the slavery model.

We don't even want to think about an injury or death which happens during the performance of duty because the employee can actually make a claim against workers compensation. Failure to pay someone performing a duty does not protect an employer from such claims.

This causes me to have so many concerns, I can't even put well assembled post!