An observation about divers

[kanonfodr]

I would question my motivation to dive with anyone who discounted others on what their cert card says; GUE, UTD, PADI, SDI/TDI, et al, even if it's not me they are making fun of, because nobody wants to dive with a pompous prick.

That's not to say I don't do "checkout" dives with new buddies, but it's not so much to eliminate dives buddies as to figure out where they would fit into the diving I am planning on in my future. Some folks I have gelled instantly with and we went on to do great dives together, others have taken some time to get up there. There is of course a minority that I would choose my dives with to mitigate my personal risk, but it has little to do with training and instead I base it on their mentality as opposed to their cards.

But back to the topic: Nature always compensates. It's why people with little brains generally have bigger mouths :/ .

Peace,
Greg

 

[scadreau]

Wow. I am sorry you are getting that attitude. It is a shame that such a small community can generate so much animosity.

Getting more education and skills is never a bad thing! During the training you will have to adhere to the equipment configuration but once you are done, you can use whatever equipment you like. The skills and knowledge will remain.

For a buddy, I don't care if you are in a jacket with a inflator/octo or a full dir rig. A good buddy is not defined by his/her gear (as long as it works!), buy by his/her diving skills.

 

[DaMaDo]

I did the GUE fundamentals with Bob Sherwood and Errol Kalayci a couple of weeks ago and Bob specifically stated never to criticize others on their methods or have a holier-than-thou attitude.

Bob said to act as "ambassadors" for GUE which includes respect to others of all agencies.

I guess GUE has had problems with certain GUE-trained divers projecting that "superior" image but it has not been in any way encouraged by GUE. No agency can control how a person behaves after class.

I have friends who are just starting out in diving who will never go GUE, but I'll never stop diving with them and I'll accept insta-buddies.

I think GUE's standardization makes it a bonus to dive with other GUE divers because, due to the standardization, everybody is "on the same page". I don't think it's necessary, it's just a small bonus. The biggest bonus I find from GUE is finding people who are as into diving as I am and willing to dive as often.

The whole point is to have fun. Who cares who trains who, a good diver can be from any agency and a bad diver can always slip through the cracks of any agency....no matter how small the cracks are.

I'm a padi rescue diver, but the best money I've spent on dive training has been GUE fundamentals.

 

[randytay]

My suggestion is do whatever you want to do and if others don't like it, tough on them.

So, go PADI, NAUI, UTD, GUE, TDI, IDEA, or whatever floats your boat. There's always going to be people with negative attitudes about others, so tune them out and do your thing.

My problem is I cannot tune them out as I plan to continue my dive education in the more "mainstream" agencies. But the attitude I got from them for doing a DIR course makes it hard for me to sign up future classes with them. Ugh!

 

[randytay]

OP, I bet you feel just like this fella now--------

YouTube - Tarzan Oooooooh

LOL! Wish I can do it like he does

 

[randytay]

You certainly can do an IDC in BP/W. However, be aware that you may well have to help the staff re-read the standards for some skills.

And the few examiners I know who do the iEs will almost certainly give you a very hard time because they honestly believe in the virtue of being able to demonstrate the techniques the students will use. And it's pretty hard to demonstrate how to easily remove and replace a vest BCD using a BP/W.

Actually, I am about to start the DM course.... none of them know of the DIR configurations, and none have dove with BP/W... any tips on the helping them re-read the standards part?

 

[TSandM]

Randy, my advice would be to hold off on the DM class for a while. Once you do Fundies, you're going to frame diving in a whole different scale of reference, and you'll have plenty to work on.

When I got certified, I did AOW and a bunch of specialties, and I was in love with my new sport. Since I love to teach, teaching diving looked like a fantastic idea, and the shop made it clear that it really didn't take that much to become an instructor (one of my DMs had been diving for eight months total). That's what I was going to do, by golly!

Then I went diving with NW Grateful Diver, and saw a whole new level of skill, unlike anything I had seen from my DMs OR my instructors. And I went to take Fundies, and the instructor there demonstrated another level of competency altogether. And I realized I had no business teaching anyone anything, because I had so much to learn. I dropped my plans for further mainstream training and explored this new world. Fundies, Rec Triox, 5thD-X Rec 2, NAUI Helitrox from AG, GUE Cave 1, UTD Tech 1, GUE Cave 2 . . . And finally, I felt as though I had enough training and enough varied experience in different diving environments to have something REAL to offer students, so I did my DM.

You may feel very much the same.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

My problem is I cannot tune them out as I plan to continue my dive education in the more "mainstream" agencies. But the attitude I got from them for doing a DIR course makes it hard for me to sign up future classes with them. Ugh!

Several current GUE instructors also teach for mainstream agencies ... and a lot of mainstream agency instructors have taken some level of GUE or UTD training. They are not incompatible.

What may be incompatible is your mentality and those of the people who are giving you attitude. If that proves to be the case, you may want to consider taking your continuing education elsewhere. Narrow-minded people are usually not the best educators.

FWIW - I am currently a member of an association of independent instructors representing NAUI, PADI and SDI/TDI. All of the instructors in our association have taken at least some level of GUE and/or UTD training. There is nothing in that training that is incompatible with the standards of our respective agencies. If anything, having been trained through other agencies gives us a perspective that, overall, makes us better instructors.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[herman]

Like Walter I go way back on this board and trust me there were a few really arrogant horses rears in the early days on this board and on occasion we still get a DIR-F’ed diver. One who takes fundies and then thinks the rest of us are dangerous and have no idea how to dive safely. "Stroke" was flying all over the place in those days and more than once I saw divers berated because they were not DIR, myself included.
DIR and team style diving has it's place and where it was designed to be used it is a very good way to dive but many of it's concepts just are not needed in rec diving. Standard gear config being one of them. If you can't look at my gear and within a few seconds understand it well enough to do a 30 ft reef dive safely, I don't want to dive with you at all (nothing personal intended-generic "you" meaning anyone). The gear is safe, 10s of thousands of diver prove that every day. On the other hand, the skills of GUE trained divers (and UTD I assume) are impressive and every diver should aspire to be as good as they are.
My biggest problem with the general DIR/UTD diver (not all but many) is the idea that because I do not use the same gear or mindset as they do, I am a less skilled or more unsafe of a diver than they are. In my normal gear in a cave I would agree with them but on a simple rec dive, that is BS.
I think if you look objectively, what you find is the negative attitude you are getting may be because of the air of superiority you are projecting, again no insults intended but anyone who displays an "I am better than you" attitude around me will get less than favorable response from me, not saying you do but it's worth considering. I see the same thing with some new DM’s and instructors.
Finally, just so you know. I have held a DIR-F card longer than many of the divers on this board have been diving, pass the first time I might add. I am still in awe at the skills of my instructors.
And thanks for not posting this in the DIR section where this would have been removed, it‘s impossible to bring an alternative viewpoint if it is not allowed .

 

[Kingpatzer]

Actually, I am about to start the DM course.... none of them know of the DIR configurations, and none have dove with BP/W... any tips on the helping them re-read the standards part?

Just ask them politely to show you in the standards what the critical skill attributes are, and where gear configurations are specified.

However, you missed the second point of my response: you have to demonstrate to the students how they will be performing the skills.

Unless your students are going to be wearing BP/W setups, it is next to impossible to demonstrate some skills for them. And since one role of the professional DM is precisely to assist instructors in demonstrating skills and working with students who are having difficulties, and since that is why you work on skills as a DM student, having a gear configuration that allows you to effectively demonstrate skills to your students is important.

My personal rig is a BP/W. But when I"m teaching, I put on a vest BCD because that is what the rental gear the students will be using is. And that is what I have to teach them how to use.